Matt Bowles: My guest today is Janna Zinzi, aka Jazz. She is a traveling storyteller, documenting cultural change-makers in arts, spirituality, entrepreneurship, and social justice. Jazz is the co-founder of WanderWomxn, a community and travel agency connecting women and gender-expansive folks of color with cultural and sustainable travel adventures. Jazz is also a travel journalist with Byline, Condé Nast Traveler, Travel and Leisure, The Daily Beast, and many others that you would know. She was a contributor to the newly released Lonely Planet Costa Rica guidebook as well. In addition to her writing, she has over 20 years of experience as a media strategist for organizations working on civil rights, reproductive justice, and black arts equity. Originally from New York, Jazz is also a mixed media artist and a forever student of dance.

Jazz, welcome to the show.

Janna Zinzi: Hey, it’s wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me.

Matt Bowles: I am so excited to have you here today. Unfortunately, we’re not in person. Let’s just start off though, by setting the scene and talking about where we are recording this from. I am actually in the Blue Ridge mountains of Asheville, North Carolina today. And where are you?

Janna Zinzi: I am in New Orleans, Louisiana right now during carnival season. It’s an amazing time. I had my King cake today already. So, all is good here in New Orleans.

Matt Bowles: Well, we should start off just by talking about where and how we met. I was out at the Nomadness Fest this past year, and you were a speaker on a couple of different panels. Absolutely amazing. I was totally impressed and compelled by how thoughtful and substantive your talk was. And then we got to hang out afterwards and you were just so delightful as a human being. I was just like, wow, I really need to have you on the podcast.

And so, this episode has been in the works for a while. But I’m finally super happy that we’re able to put it together and make it happen. But can you just share a little bit for you, for people that have never heard of Nomadness Travel Tribe and the Nomadness Fest, can you share a little bit about the community and your involvement with them?

Janna Zinzi: Sure. So, yeah, it was great to meet at Nomadness Fest. So, for folks who don’t know, Nomadness Travel Tribe has been around, I mean, I think it was since 2013 and started by the amazing Evita Robinson, who I met when she first started Nomadness Travel Tribe. And really she started it to be a community for Black and Brown travelers looking to connect, have adventures, travel the world, share resources and information.

I remember meeting her in front of the like Brooklyn Museum on Saturday, the free Saturdays that they have parties. And she had these cute cards that said something like, ‘Nomadness Member’. I might still have it. And just watching her grow that community. I think now they have 30,000 Facebook followers. And so, they do these really just dope events called Nomadness Fest. Their annual festivals are geared towards travelers, folks to be in community together, IRL, you know, so bringing that Facebook community to life.

So, there are folks there who are just like travel enthusiasts, travel influencers, content creators, travel advisors, and travel journalists. So, it’s just a vibe. Everybody’s just super cool, smart, loving, joyful. And we were in Louisville, Kentucky. I hope I said Louisville right because you got to say it properly.

We got education on how to say it. But it was really, uh, a really, just a beautiful space, beautiful time. And the event was at the Muhammad Ali Center there, which I really wish I had more time to explore. but had some really powerful artwork and archives at that center. So, I hope to go back sometime.

There were things I didn’t get to experience but got to meet you and kick it and talk smack and talk shop. So that was definitely good.

Matt Bowles: It was amazing. Yeah. And big up to Evita Robinson. She has been a guest on The Maverick show. If anybody has not heard that episode, we will link it up in the show notes. Definitely one that you’re going to want to go listen to.

Jazz, I want to start with your story all the way back and talk about where you grew up. And you and I are from a similar era, we are both hip-hop fans and you grew up in New York during the golden era of hip-hop. Can you talk about where specifically you grew up and what it was like coming up in that era in particular?

Janna Zinzi: For sure. Yeah, I grew up in Mount Vernon, New York, better known as money-earned in Mount Vernon. And you I’m grateful because I spent my pre-teens, teens, and early college, that was the 90s for me. And that is just the best era of music straight up, across the board, hip hop, I think all genres personally, but hip hop has such a, you know, they say like the soundtrack of your life, and it really has been.

So, Mount Vernon is the home of Heavy D, Pete Rock, Diddy is really from Mount Vernon, but he doesn’t claim it and we don’t need to claim him. So that’s cool. You know, to be honest about that, but it was such an amazing time.

And I really want to give props right now to my cousin. He’s like my big brother, my cousin, Chris. He grew up in the Bronx and I spent a lot of time with him and his sister growing up together. They’re like my siblings. And like, he was the one that really, kind of like introduced me to hip-hop. I would say like a little, little kid, he would just be rapping. And I remember him talking about cozy conditioning.

And I used to just be singing without knowing what the heck that was. It was just like; I am so grateful for that time. And also, I’ve also had this like very tenuous relationship with hip-hop as a young woman coming of age, a young black girl, a black biracial girl coming up, being a, I was a young feminist.

I’ve always been into equality and rights. You know, I’d be like, literally the other day, like, I think it was yesterday I was in a Lyft, nothing but a Jeep thing came on the radio, and I was like rapping to it. I was like, “Oh, I still love this song so much”. But I remember the video, I think it’s the video for that, it’s one of those Dr. Dre videos where it’s like, there’s a scene of people playing volleyball. And like this woman goes to jump up and like, you know, hit the ball or whatever. And they like to rip her top open. And so, I just remember like the misogyny of it and feeling so conflicted as a young person and as a young woman about the whole misogyny and like, well, I really like these songs, but like, do I have to be a bitch and a hoe and suck dick and do all this other stuff?

Like part of what spoke to me as that was happening were the people like Queen Latifah and like even when I was a little kid in the eighties. To me, I was all about Salt-N-Pepa and like, in the early 90s, Salt-N-Pepa was my jam because they were talking about, do you really want me? Let me know. Like, don’t just be trying to have sex with me.

I’m a, you know, just like, and I’m going to express myself and all this very like, feminist kind of energy and still being, there was a sexuality to it or like an acknowledgment that there are sexual feelings and things like that. And then you have to like the Lil Kim and Foxy Brown era. And that’s when it was just like, “Oh, we’re going to be hella raunchy”.

And so, I’m grateful for the women that really paved the way through that time and helped me kind of navigate. I want to like hip-hop, but I hate being called a bitch every three seconds. You know what I’m saying? Or just looked at as like a hoe and this like side character or this person that’s just there for your pleasure. Like that was always very conflicting for me to the point where there were sometimes where I was like, F this. Like, I don’t want to listen to Biggie. Fuck Tupac. Like, I don’t care about them. So like, there was such a wide gamut to me, um, and even now it’s just like really interesting to see what the elevation of women’s voices in hip-hop, but also what the subject matter is and like how it’s changed, but not necessarily changed at all.

So that’s my long way of saying growing up in New York was lit. It was being in high school in the nineties. Amazing. College in the nineties. Amazing. Best party. We danced and we didn’t have fucking social media.

Matt Bowles: I want to ask you about the dance because I know that that has been a huge part of your life, and it started incredibly young for you. Can you take us all the way back and talk about how dance originally came into your life as a young person and what that meant to you?

Janna Zinzi: Yeah. Dance is the main through line of my life. And I’m an Aquarius and people say we’re noncommittal and we’re just floating all over the place. And part of that’s a little bit true.

But what I will say is I’ve been dancing since the age of three. I started doing tap, ballet, jazz, kind of the typical dance school when you’re a kid. And there were times when I wanted to quit. And my mom was like, “Nope, you’re not quitting. You could quit piano”. And I wish she didn’t let me quit piano, but that’s another story.

But I just, I always loved dancing. I love performing. You know, we talk about hip-hop, and we talk about like, I was such a music video maniac growing up MTV, BET, VH1. And I loved the choreography. I love dancing. And I’m so connected to music. And then as I got to college, you know, after I graduated high school, college is where I started to really be able to study and take classes in hip hop dance and Afro-Caribbean styles.

And in my twenties, really learning diaspora folklore dances. So, Congolese dance, Haitian dancing, again, like these Afro-Caribbean, less like Soka or dance hall, but more of the like Orisha dancing, spiritual dancing. And so, I’ve been just doing it ever since. And, um, also was a burlesque performer where I incorporated all of those things that I learned into my burlesque routines. It was great. Burlesque is like, where a lot of dancers who didn’t go a traditional route end up.

Matt Bowles: Can you give us a little background on that? For people that are not familiar with burlesque, talk a little bit about the art form and then also share a little bit about the history in particular of black women and other women of color in burlesque.

Janna Zinzi: Absolutely. I love burlesque so much. So burlesque is essentially theatrical striptease and burlesque the word burlesque comes from the word ‘burlar’ in Latin which means to make fun of. So, the idea of burlesque was not necessarily to be like just like this sexual thing, it was more about making fun of the mores, ethics of the times, especially for women.

So, you can trace burlesque back to the 1800s. You can trace women of color’s participation in burlesque back to the late 1800s. And in particular, a lot of the time, the piece is centered around making fun of gender roles. So like women have to be dainty, women have to be cooks, you know, and cleaning or whatever.

And then you add the layer of stereotypes of women of color. So, you have, you know, whatever those stereotypes of black women were, uh, you know, as maids or as sexually voracious or like Asian women are submissive and, you know, all these stupid stereotypes that still exist, but really using the stage to make fun of it and have fun with it.

A lot of times in the history of it, you’ll see black women and Asian women getting together and doing reviews together, which I think is like fantastic and so super cool. You know, you have one of the most famous black performers. I want to say it’s Ida Overton and I may mess up her name. I think her first name is Ida actually.

She’s one of the first prolific ones. Uh, there was a woman in the 1890s who took Salome and she basically, people were going crazy over this one white woman performer, please forgive me for forgetting these pioneer’s names. And so, she was like, “Oh, okay. You want to see how it’s really done?” She did her version and people lost their whole minds.

As it evolved, there was a time where it’s kind of. It fell off because burlesque became more like a stripping culture, became more popular and actually just more lucrative. But there was real research, I would say that was around like seventies, 1970s, and eighties. And I would say in the nineties, there became this resurgence of women getting in touch with the burlesque art form as a way of reclaiming body autonomy, loving themselves, real like body positivity, feminism, I guess. So, for me, when I was in New York, I was dancing and I found a group called Brown Girls Burlesque, and they started 2008, maybe, and I found them around 2010. And I went to this women’s day. It was like a women’s history month show. And these women tore it up, man. They did everything from like Harriet Tubman and Sheila E.

It’s like the widest array of, of storytelling. And I was like, I love this. I want to do it. How can I be down? This is so fly. And so became a member with them. And what was dope about it is that we were in New York city and the woman who founded it, shout out to Miss Aurora Bubrealis, she is a pioneer because she was going to all these burlesque shows in New York City, and like, why are there no women of color?

There’s like maybe one if that, and this is New York City in 2006, 7, 8. That makes no sense. You know, we got together and now burlesque is so, it’s just amazing. It’s so many more women of color and it’s so much more gender expansive. It’s really just, I’m grateful for that time in that space because I feel like just by being who we were, a group of women of color who were sometimes political, like we really took that idea, those roots of burlesque, of making fun of stuff and talking about issues of the day.

You know, we did stuff about climate change. One of my favorite pieces that a friend of mine did; exotic other, did a piece. You’ll appreciate this, on Israel and Palestine, that blew my mind, on um, borders. And it was all about Boycott Divestment Sanction(BDS) to Be Our Guest, by the, like the Disney song, Be Our Guest.

That still gives me chills when I think about it, it’s one of the most brilliant things I’ve ever seen in my entire life, like I really want to talk to her, but like, girl, can you bring that out again? So anyway, that’s my nerd out of burlesque. I just think it’s a really phenomenal art form and it’s sexy and you reclaim like you just love up on yourself and you love up with the people in the audience and I don’t want to take that away. Like there obviously is a sensuality to it that’s exciting, you know, but it’s playing with all of those things together in a way that I think is really smart and fun and joyful and, and healing.

Matt Bowles: Well, I also want to ask you a little bit about how your interest in world travel started to develop because I know you have now integrated dance into a lot of your travel experiences. But take us sort of all the way back on that journey when you think back when you were young and coming up, how did that interest in world travel initially start to develop and what were some of your earliest travel experiences?

Janna Zinzi: So as a little kid, my parents, my dad does not fly. We’ve been, I’ve been trying to work on him, but he’s not feeling me and it’s okay. I love him very much. So, we drove everywhere. We took road trips everywhere. Up and down 95, New York to Florida, New York to North Carolina. That’s where my grandparents were and are.

And so, the first time I actually got on a plane was to do study abroad, uh, Spain. And that was the summer of 1999. And I was just like, my whole world just was blown away. I was like, “This is the best. Oh my God”. Like, it’s like a whole new world opened up to me. So, I just was like, I’m curious. I want to travel and do more.

And I did this after college, ran around Europe thing for a month with the homies. And you know that just kind of started something in me, but it really was in my 20s. The jobs that I had always required travel. That was kind of happenstance. One of my first jobs, I was working with allhiphop.com, I was a publicist for them.

And so, we got to go all over the place to domestic travel, right? St. Louis, Miami, Greensboro, North Carolina, like the most, some of the most random places, but like cool stuff. Dallas for conference. And then I worked in a kind of a 180 at a reproductive health think tank. And that was like the job right after that.

So, night and day the entirely the same skillset in two totally different industries. I was the marketing person, so, I got to go to conferences all over the world. And all over the country, all over the United States. So, I went to Mexico City. I went to Morocco. I ran to the like booth. And when you go to conferences and conventions, I was the booth person that was like, come sign up for our newsletter. Let’s set up this booth here. Take our brochures, blah, blah, blah.

And so, what I always did was this company or whoever’s paying me to travel. So, I’m going to take a day or two and go explore. I mean, you know, at the time I’m like 28, I’m like, I don’t have money to fly to Morocco on my own. So let me take a few days while I’m here in Morocco.

Let me take a few days while I’m in Mexico City. Let me take a couple of days when I’m in Kansas City and just talk to people and eat some barbecue or whatever. And so that just became almost accidental, it was like unintentional that just became something I just loved. I loved traveling and going to new places and meeting people and talking to people.

And like, it’s how I learned a lot about particularly black history in the United States was just going to different places. And being like, “Oh, what should I learn about here?”. You know, what’s there to do here? Cool. I went to Kansas City and like the Negro leagues, baseball museum was there. And I love that so much. I’m a big baseball person.

So, from there, it just kind of evolved where I wanted to start writing about travel because. I felt like I wanted to share my experiences as a blogger, and then I started to think about, well, there’s a lot of stories that aren’t being told. And you don’t really see a lot of Black women writers.

You don’t really see a lot of stuff about Black history, or women’s voices, or spirituality, or these things that were interesting to me as a traveler weren’t being reflected one in the blogosphere, and two, certainly not in mainstream media. So, it just kind of like all happened. And it’s been really just kind of a going with the flow journey.

If that makes any sense of like, huh, there’s a need here. Oh, there’s other people who want this thing or are curious about this thing. How can we connect and build community around these ways of seeing the world? This idea of travel, that’s a little bit more connection focused. Conscious is a little bit overused, but conscious in a way of making connections with people and understanding our own space in the world and how we’re interconnected and relating to other people in other locations.

Matt Bowles: Well, I want to ask you about some of those travel experiences. I think the one that I want to start with is Haiti. Can you talk about your experience there?

Janna Zinzi: Haiti was really special. It was my last international trip before COVID became a thing. So, it was my last international trip of the before times, as they call it. It was a heritage travel opportunity for me. It was a dance retreat with this incredible Haitian dancer and singer named Reva Nairi. If you’re in Brooklyn, check her out. She’s just on the next level. And a friend of mine, who knows me? One, I’m adopted. So, my birth father is Haitian. I’m not very connected to that part of my ancestry.

And so, it’s something that I’ve always been trying to tap into in different ways. And dance is one of the ways that I tap into a lot of things, but really how I could connect to that part of my culture and my ancestry. And so, this was a dance retreat, four days. We went to Cap Haitian, and it was life changing.

We got to dance at the Citadel, which is a massive historical monument built to keep the French out. Uh, and it really is like, we were dancing, not particularly like in the, the Citadel itself, but like in this field right next to it where they were all these other ruins. And we were doing ancestral Loa, like voodoo dances, honoring ancestors, honoring Gede, spirits.

And again, I can like feel it and see it in my mind’s eye. And we also got to do some really beautiful dancing on this island, Amiga Island. We were told it’s where Christopher Columbus first came. And so that was really powerful doing Yanvalu, which is like a snake undulation type of dance. And You wear all white. It’s, you’re connecting with the water. And so, we’re doing these very watery waves dances as we’re staring at the ocean.

I’m really at a loss for words about it, but it was one of the most profound travel experiences that I’ve ever had. And also, what I will say on a very logistical level, organized to a T, because Haiti is not an easy trip to organize for a lot of reasons.

It got postponed because of political strife. So, I felt really blessed and grateful to be able to go, but it really taught me a lot of growth personally, but also as well in terms of seeing how people run really good, solid, tight group trips in places that are maybe not always the most set up for travel and tourism. So it was dope.

Matt Bowles: Well, another place that I want to ask you about is your trip to Naples, Italy, what your motive was for going to Naples? And then, what your experience was like in Napoli once you got there?

Janna Zinzi: I love me some Napoli, I love Naples. You can’t see that I’m smiling right now, but that is my jam.

Matt Bowles: Listen, here’s the thing. I love it too. And I love people who love Napoli because there’s a lot of hate towards Napoli. And when somebody tells me that they really love it and they connect with it, they resonate with it, I was like, “Yow, those are my people”. I mean, I really appreciate it as well, but what was your experience like and what do you love about it?

Janna Zinzi: Same. I’m like, the people who are Naple’s haters. That tells me everything I need to know about you, that we, we’re not going to travel vibe. That is what it is. So, I ended up there last summer. I was with my best friend, and we were taking her daughter who is my goddaughter to do a study abroad program in Florence.

So, we were like, we were going to Florence. Great. Well, we’re going to go all over the place. And I really was pushing to go to Naples because also I have ancestry there. And so, a friend of mine, one of my home girls, shout out to B, she lives in London. She’s like, I love Naples. It’s great. You got to go. So we went from fancy, a muffy coast, picturesque, blue, gorgeous water and beach and all this stuff to like gritty ass Naples.

And I remember my friend when we got there, we rolled up to where we were staying, the Airbnb, there was like trash all over the sidewalk and like whatever. And so, it was just like such a stark contrast and this like the massive juxtaposition of what we just came from of like beautiful Amalfi coast to like dirty graffiti city, Naples.

And we both loved it. We both loved it. I don’t know. It was like, that’s, it gives me like a New York 1995 vibe. Maybe that’s why I like it so much. But what I like about it is yes, the grit. I like There’s incredible street art everywhere. I love street art. I love graffiti. I want to see it. I don’t care. I’m here for it.

The food, top notch, best I had, phenomenal, hands down, and it’s affordable. That’s also the thing, like we were all over, we were in Florence, we were in Lake Como, we went to Amalfi, you know, so we were like in more like fancier kind of things, and Florence is a city. But Naples, that food was top notch, so flavorful, it reminded me of my Aunt Katie, that meat sauce, it just was the best food, and what was amazing is there is, my last name is Zinzi, there is a delicious salami sandwich shop with the name Zinzi.

So, I met one of my distant cousins. I was like, I’m a Zinzi. He gave us the shirts from his collection to give to me and my dad and my auntie. That sandwich was so banging. That’s like. One of the top five food experiences that I’ve had in my life. And I love how hyped they are for the things they love.

Like Maradona is everywhere. I didn’t know who the hell Maradona was when I went, but I sure found out fast that he’s like their soccer legend or their football legend. And so, I just love the energy there. It just was joyful to me. And. gritty and the shopping was great. The food was phenomenal. And you’re walking around a city and then you turn the corner and there’s like a 13th century castle, just next to like some dirty graffiti, Plaza. I’m here for it. Love it.

Matt Bowles: It is amazing. I agree. I tell everyone to go and anybody that’s going to be in that direction, that vicinity to get to the Amalfi coast, you got to fly through Naples. And I was like, do not sleep in Naples. Do not just skip through it. Don’t just have it as your, you know, your hub and your like, stay there, spend time there, immerse yourself in the history and the beautiful gritty authenticity of the culture, and have your mind blown by the type of food that you’re going to eat in that city. It is the next level.

Janna Zinzi: Yes. I love that you have been there and that you feel me on that.

Matt Bowles: I tell everybody about it. I mean, it is the spot. I want to ask you about a very different type of place that you have spent time in, which is Costa Rica, and you actually ended up contributing to the Lonely Planet Costa Rica guidebook. Can you talk about your experience there and that contribution to the guidebook?

Janna Zinzi: Sure. I ended up in Costa Rica kind of by accident, but nothing’s really by accident. In 2020, you know, all of us were going through in 2020. I was living in Los Angeles, left LA, I came to New Orleans towards the end of the year and 2020 housing was like absolutely insane in the United States. I mean housing is still a thing, continues to be a thing, but 2020 folks were tripping trying to charge crazy prices and just it was a time and when I moved here to New Orleans, I couldn’t find housing.

My homegirl got stuck “in Costa Rica” because she was on a sabbatical and when borders were closing, she was just like, well, I’m here. I’m just going to stay. So, she’s like, you know what? I can get you a pair. There’s an opening in my building, 700 apartment rent. Its utilities included across the street from the beach, and Wi-Fi. There’s a pool. If you want it, you want it. This apartment is, you know, I’ll tell them it’s yours. So, I put my stuff in storage and went down to Costa Rica and ended up staying there for about a year. I stayed at first and that was in Guanacaste, which implies Del Coco. And then I went down to the Caribbean and stayed there for a longer amount of time.

The Caribbean part of Costa Rica. I don’t know if you’ve been is really, that’s my jam. That’s where the Afro-Costa Rican people and indigenous communities are. So, it’s a very distinct energy, very different from the rest of Costa Rica, which is incredible. Yeah. I lived there for a year and then it’s funny.

I just pitched myself to contribute to this Lonely Planet Costa Rica guide. I don’t know where I saw a call for contributors, but I was like, “Yeah. That seems cool. And I knew in my heart, I was like, of course, they’re going to ask me to write the Southern Caribbean section. I’m like, I’m the black girl. I lived there. So, duh.

No, they, they hired me to write for Southern Costa Rica, like the central part and the Osa Peninsula, which was like the one section of the country I’d never been to. And I was like, uh, I’ve never been there, but we are going to figure it out. And this is what’s so crazy is when I lived in LA, I met a guy who runs a travel company specifically for the Osa Peninsula.

So, shout out to Eitan of Local Travel who helped me develop my entire itinerary, and hooked me up with the best people. And what they specialize in is ecotourism, working with smaller agencies on the ground, community tourism, making sure that the people who are running the tours are getting the money, not these big mega tour agencies that are in the capital and then charge a hundred dollars and then pay their tour guides five.

I had such an amazing experience. The Osa Peninsula is. Again, breathtaking. It’s so, it’s one of the most biodiverse regions on the entire planet. It really was such a, it just was such a divine occurrence, such a blessing. And so, I have this connection. Costa Rica is always calling me and I’m grateful that I was able to share the stories about these incredible folks local, you know, people who are generations from Costa Rica. Who are biologists, who are farmers, who are indigenous people, indigenous leaders in their community, and to be able to share their stories and share about their land in such a major platform. So very grateful for that. I’m working on my own WanderWomxn version though, WanderWomxn guidebook, because there’s things about writing guidebooks that are not quite, you know, I would approach it differently for women of color and gender expansive folks as well.

Matt Bowles: So let me ask you about your travel writing more broadly. You have published Condé Nast, Travel and Leisure, and the list goes on. Can you share a little bit? about your approach to travel writing, the lenses that you use when you’re choosing stories and some of the types of things that you’ve written about.

Janna Zinzi: Sure. So, as you mentioned in the bio, my main background is in media strategy and communications, working with social justice groups and organizations. And so, I’m always thinking strategically about communications, narrative, and storytelling, even when I talk about burlesque, burlesque is about changing narratives and storytelling.

So, for me, travel writing is no different. It’s kind of an extension of this long game master plan, wah ah ah way of like trying to shift the way people think about women of color, in particular, Black women, gender-expansive folks. And also thinking about justice issues, climate justice, racial justice, sustainability, and a lot of that is through history.

Travel for me was a way I learned about these things and made connections with people outside of my block, my city, and my state. Travel was really what helped me understand history better, understand myself as a U S citizen, and understand the privileges that I have. Or even understand myself as a New Yorker being totally elitist sometimes going to other places, if I’m frank.

And when I think about travel journalism, I want to just tell the stories that aren’t being told and a lot of the time give perspectives as a Black woman from the States who is exploring different places. Like, what does that mean to see me in these other cultures. Or what are other dope black women doing and women of color doing in the Bahamas, like in Costa Rica, in Italy, wherever they are?

What are the stories that need to be uplifted? And so really trying to use my platforms to share personal stories, but also to uplift these change makers who are helping us rethink how we approach the world, rethink how we approach travel. I really just like to tell compelling stories about people doing cool, phenomenal, and inspirational things.

Especially in mainstream outlets, especially if I can, because they need to see more of us in these places so that it’s not just monolithic storytelling and that it’s also not colonialized storytelling. And that’s also forced me to really continue to do work on decolonizing my own ways of thinking, seeing things, talking about things, approaching things as a traveler, as a visitor, as an immigrant to other people’s places where I, you know, living abroad.

So that’s how I like to think about travel journalism. And I want to bring money to black people, local people, people who are doing cool stuff. That’s what I am. Frankly, I want to do that. I want folks, I want my communities to get paid.

Matt Bowles: I want to ask if you can expand a little bit on your reflections on travel ethics. One of the key themes of the Nomadness Fest this past year was exactly that. And Evita did this amazing keynote on can BIPOC travelers be colonizers too? And you were a big part of that whole discussion, that whole theme and talking about the things that we need to keep in mind as travelers. In that regard, can you share maybe some of the main points that you were talking about at Nomadness and some of the reflections over your years of travel and study and writing and interaction with folks. And just maybe offer some tips for folks for how we can just be a little bit more conscious and thoughtful as we move through the world?

Janna Zinzi: I pitched that topic to Evita like just as a panel and then she hit me and I was so nervous about it like, uh, I don’t know, like people are going to resonate with this, you know, is it too, am I too militant? And she wrote me back, she was like, will you do a fireside chat with me about this? And I was so honored and really like heartened because I was like, I felt that part of the reason why I started WanderWomxn with a group of other women of color was because we felt like a lot of the travel content, you know, on social media and also the stories that I wanted to tell in major publications, was super, Colonial.

It was very much about not acknowledging our U.S. passport privilege, not acknowledging the American dollar, U.S. dollar privilege. It was very voyeuristic. It was not anything about, like, connecting with the community. It was just like, here’s a picture of me being pretty in a bathing suit on a beach. And that’s cool.

I love pretty people. But, like, don’t tell me you’re a travel expert when you’re not talking about travel, you’re just trying to be cute on the internet. For me, it was such an honor to be able to speak about that. And I think that a lot of it starts with acknowledging our positionality and acknowledging our privilege.

It also for me, I think it’s about a level of humility, a level of curiosity, and thinking about we’re going to somebody’s home. So how do you show up when you go to somebody’s home? Are you coming into the house with dirt all over your shoes, plopping on their couch, putting your dirty feet? I keep thinking about that.

The Dave Chappelle skit back in the day where it was Rick James puts his dirty ass feet all over. Are you doing that when you go to other people’s countries, right? Or other people’s cities? Being genuinely curious about folks and really supporting local businesses. So, you ask for tips, right? So how can you support local businesses?

And particularly, Black and brown people, where are the queer people? How are you supporting different communities, immigrant communities, and their small businesses? Don’t just stay at the Marriott and the Sheraton and whatever. Are there smaller hotels that are locally owned, or family-owned or restaurants that are family-owned that you can support?

And give your tourism dollars too, and I think also really trying to understand the history of the land, maybe before you get there to inform the things that you’re going to do when you get there. For example, when I went to Vietnam, I loved my time in Vietnam. I was there for a month. I watched the Ken Burns documentary.

I needed out for all 13 hours or whatever, however long that thing was. And that so greatly informed me about one going there as an American or a person from the United States and understanding the context of what I’m stepping into. It changes everything. I’m like, I can’t imagine the experience I would have had in Vietnam if I had no idea.

And like, all of a sudden just ended up at the War Remnants Museum and had a complete utter breakdown of like, oh my God, the Vietnam War was so effed up. So, I feel like it’s just important for us to know where we’re going. There’s a saying, I think it’s the United States Park Service has a thing called the Parks Project.

Leave it better than you found it. Clean your stuff up. Don’t be trash in places. And I mean that in all the ways that your physical trash, which are emotional trash. Just treat people the way that you would want to be treated in your home and put your money in people’s pockets who are from there, who are doing good things.

And just really be mindful of your own positionality when you travel places. And especially that privilege of regardless, like if you white, black, whatever. Know that if you have a U.S. passport, you’re going to be treated a certain way. And if you have U.S. dollars, you’re going to be treated a certain way.

And that’s not to say colorism and racism and sexism and homophobia and transphobia do not exist, because they are very present all over the world. Everywhere you will get treated differently based on what you look like and how you present. But if you got American dollars, people going to want you to come to their business. Straight up because they want, you know what I mean? It’s just like, it’s just what it is. So just acknowledging that I think is important, even if it’s incredibly uncomfortable.

Matt Bowles: Well, I also want to ask you, of course, about the organization that you founded, WanderWomxn. Can you share a little bit about what led to the founding of that? Give us the origin story and then what exactly it offers and who it serves.

Janna Zinzi: Sure. So uh, WanderWomxn is a travel guide resource and agency specifically for women and gender-expansive folks of color. And I started it back in, I guess it was 2019. And I think even before that at a communications conference, me and, um, a couple of women, shout out to Mina Hussein, we just were talking like, we don’t see ourselves reflected in travel content.

That’s why I was talking to you about these, just content creation just felt really vapid. You know, very like showboat kind of vibes. And we’re just like, let’s start this blog. Let’s tell our stories. And then over time, I was just like, I wanted to do more than right. I want to curate community and build community and talk about conscious travel and curate trips.

And so now this year, 2024, I’m finally launching group trips. So, I’m really excited about that. And bringing in some folks who want to blog, other women that are interested in blogging and telling their stories about their travels, liberatory stories. Travel is, can be really liberatory, especially for black women.

Black queer women, black and brown women across the board. Getting out of the U.S. feels really good. A lot of the time for our mental health, physical health, all the things. And so really excited for what WanderWomxn is going to do this year. I can’t tell the group trips yet. You got to sign up for the newsletter to get first dibs and premiere access.

To know where we’re going and also just offering resources. So, for example, like I mentioned, I’m creating a Costa Rica travel guide again, with our communities in mind, is it safe to go as a queer person of color? If so, where are the Black people at? What do I eat? Just different things about how to explore Costa Rica.

What are the things that might be interesting? And so really want to do more of that content and focus on those trips from a cultural and sustainable perspective.

Matt Bowles: I want to ask you for tips for travelers who are from dominant groups or travel writers that are from dominant groups. How can we be better allies as we are traveling to this world, as we are writing about this world or creating content about this world?

Janna Zinzi: Definitely. I mean, I think some of it is kind of like, no, what are your stories to tell? I have a good friend of mine; this is a great example. She was approached to, she’s a white woman down, super dope.

Like, has my heart, she was approached to write about Essence Fest. And Essence Fest is like the premier Black women’s event space. Straight up, it is legacy Black women’s magazine. And so she was, um, I don’t think I’m the person to write this, but I know someone who would do a great job. She was like, would you want to do this?

And referred me to the job. So, it’s things like this to know, is this my story to tell? Should I be the one telling this story? I have another really great friend of mine, Jen Posner, who’s always been very much about equity on panels. So anytime she’s invited to speak on a panel, she does a lot of feminist media stuff.

She asks who else is on the panel? Are there any black women? Are there women of color? Are there queer people? She’s like, I’m not going to be on this all-white panel speaking about things. No, you need to diversify this panel. So, there are things that you can do in that way to be like, okay, like maybe you don’t know any better, organizer X, but let me help you understand what you need to do to make this more equitable, right?

And I think from a journalism standpoint, Again, it’s definitely about, you know, what stories to tell. And I also think it’s about, like, it can be challenging when you have a blind spot, when you don’t know what you don’t know, right? There are a lot of things where I’m like, “Oh, I have people, I live in New Orleans”. I’m not from here. I have folks who tug my coattails and be like, that’s the New Yorker in you, or challenge me in terms of, really understanding the certain parts of New Orleans history and culture that I don’t I’m an outsider. I fully recognize that. So, I think it’s being open to hearing those criticisms or open to really understanding and humbling yourself and learning and leaning on local voices or leaning on voices who are of those communities from those communities and really taking a step back and asking yourself.

Am I being voyeuristic? Am I talking about folks like this others, or having a specific gaze on a community and really trying to again, step outside of yourself and think about like, what is the impact of what I’m writing? Also, you should have sources again in your writing from people of the culture you’re writing about of those places that you’re writing about.

A lot of it is not just the intentionality, but the follow through. I also think if you can have people around you that can check you, listen to them. And it sucks and it’s really uncomfortable, but it’s not anybody’s responsibility. Like, it’s not someone who’s from a minority or under, I don’t even say underrepresented, but it’s not their responsibility to school you on everything.

You have have to do your work, but if you have friends from those communities and they tell you something, you should listen and receive feedback.

Matt Bowles: When you think back about all of the travel that you have done now and all of the experiences that you have sought out and had in all of these places and all the things that you’ve learned, what impact do you think all of that travel has had on you as a person?

Janna Zinzi: I have deep gratitude for all the adventures and travel and places that I’ve been able to go. It’s made me smarter. It’s made my heart be more open and empathetic. It’s also made me or helped me contextualize the U.S. as well and see that there are so many other possibilities that I think, there are things that, you know, we take for granted 100%.

Like there’s reasons why people still travel thousands of miles across borders through cartels and rivers and all sorts of unimaginable things to come here. I understand that, but I also understand the ways in which the United States is a model for oppression, especially racism, is the global standard and model.

How that impacts Black people, people of color, every single day, all the time. It’s inescapable. You know, like holding these multiple truths. Travel has really helped me kind of understand that and sit with that and think about how I can be a conduit, a messenger, a guide for particularly I think that’s why I want so deeply other black women, black and brown folks, women in particular, gender expansive folks of color to get out. Because you don’t realize how intense it is sometimes until you leave and see what else is out there and see what being around black folks in Costa Rica in thriving black communities.

That sometimes we need to see that to believe it and to feel that and to understand. And it’s just helped me connect with other cultures and that’s what I love about travel is we’re more alike than different and so that to me is so beautiful, is making those connections of, for example, when I was in Vietnam, we were on this train and the guy, the food cart was coming by, and they had mango. So, I was like, definitely. I was like, I don’t know what’s in that pot. It might be good. Let me get this mango for sure. And so, he gave me this little packet of salt and spice in it. And I was like, it’s like Tajin, like the Mexican seasoning Tajin. I was like, Vietnamese Tajin. I was like, we’re all country cousins.

So excited by that, you know, it’s like little things that you really just see. Everybody wants to be loved. Everybody wants to connect. Everybody wants to be heard and seen, travel kind of helps you understand humanity and our own humanity, I think, differently.

Matt Bowles: Can you talk a little bit also specifically about the way you’ve integrated dance into your travels, particularly with regard to immersing in different African diasporic cultures and so forth?

Janna Zinzi: Yeah, absolutely. So, one of the trips I am planning for 2024, there’s a dance component and I’m so excited about that. I’m so excited. Actually, both of the trips that I’m planning for 2024, one is more overt, but there is definitely a dance component. That’s how I connect with culture, is dance and music.

That’s how I learn about culture. That’s how I learn about history. That’s what moves and motivates me. So, for me, wherever I go, I want to go dance. I’m like, where’s the dance class? I want to go learn something like when I went to Cuba with a whole bunch of my home girls, we went to this area, Trinidad de Cuba, and there we, what we happened to just be walking around and there was a dance performance happening.

And I was like, “We have to go in, oh my gosh”. Because I study Afro-Cuban dance and I was like, “Oh, we have to go. Let’s go”. So, we go in there and they were doing Orisha dances, and I was so excited. And then I don’t know if I ask, like, do y’all teach classes or whatever? And they were like, sure, we’ll teach. And so, I ended up taking a drum and dance class there on the spot.

I was like, bye guys. They were like, we’ll come back in two hours. I was like, I’ll see you. And so, anytime I can dance and connect with a place through that, I want to do it just because it feels good in my body. It’s, it’s a language that I know. Like, I don’t, I might not know the language, you know, I don’t know Creole, but I know these dances.

To me, it’s such an important piece of culture that I think gets left out. It gets left out of the art a lot, anyway. People tend to like it when they think about art, it’s always visual art, painting sculptures or it’s music, but dance is like the underrated foundation of how stories are told and how stories are recorded with the song. Like you can’t have the drums without dancing. You can’t have music without dancing. That’s why it’s really powerful and important to me.

Matt Bowles: Well, I also want to ask you about your experience as a dance teacher and an international burlesque teacher in particular. Can you talk about that?

Janna Zinzi: I was teaching a lot online. And so, I taught, when I was in Costa Rica, I taught when I lived in Los Angeles. So, most of the workshops and teaching that I was doing were basically sensual movement workshops. And I loved it. I did a really fun right again. This was like right before everything shut down in the pandemic. When I was living in LA, I did a really fun four-week workshop.

It was basically all teaching burlesque and teaching is more about being in touch with yourself. And loving how you move and loving your own self-expression and giving yourself the freedom to just play and explore and do whatever you want and getting out of your own head about what this idea of being sexy is, or like, I have to know the choreography to good, be a good performer.

It’s not about that. No one cares if you know the steps or choreography. A lot of the best burlesque pieces I’ve seen. There’s no dancing in it, really. It’s more play and expression and storytelling. And so, for me, it’s also been really healing for me. And it was healing for me, particularly at a time when I was dealing with reverberations after-effects of sexual assault.

And so, reclaiming my body, reclaiming my bodily autonomy. Those are the things, and also too, a lot of times women in general, but particularly there’s a specific flavor to the way that black and brown women, and especially if you’re queer or, you know, gender expansive. The ways you’re socialized about your body, the ways you’re socialized about sex and sexuality, it’s dangerous. It’s bad. You’re bad. You’re going to hell. This is the devil. And whatever these things are, they just eat away from your psyche. And a lot of us too, have been, I don’t like to use the word victims, but if have experienced sexual assault in some way or had people use power over us. And so, for me, dance is freedom.

And I want people to just be happy in the way that they move and reconnect with their bodies and feel good in their bodies, no matter what their bodies look like. And that’s what’s like kind of cool about burlesque is it’s really like, you don’t have to look any, you can look any kind of way. Nobody cares.

If you are having fun, and you got some sparkles on. We love it. We are here for you. You’re going to get cheered on. People like titties, you know what I mean? It’s just like that on a very baseline, like that’s kind of, it’s hard to be sad. It’s real.

Matt Bowles: Well, you have built such a wonderful community, and I think you attract such amazing people to you. And you’ve built a really empowering community that I think is just fantastic. So, for folks that are interested in learning more about your community, before we wrap this up and move into the lightning round, I just want you to let folks know a little bit about what are the opportunities, how can they connect or get involved with the WanderWomxn community?

Janna Zinzi: So, we are WanderWomx, I’m wandering around and women is W-O-M-X-N. And so that’s one word, WanderWomxn travels. You can find me on IG, it’s wanderwomxntravels.com. Everything’s there. Check out the website. And sign up for the newsletter, especially because that’s where you get premier access, first dibs on these, um, poppin’ trips that are coming up. So definitely sign up for the newsletter. Also, on TikTok, got to keep it fresh. Be like youth. I love TikTok. I’ve learned a lot. Of random things on TikTok, like how to buy used cars and all these things, but I use it for travel. But anyway, that’s the way to come find me. Or you can find me. I’m Janna, last name Zinzi. And me and WanderWomxn are completely enmeshed. So, if you find one, you will be able to find the other.

Matt Bowles: We are going to link all of that up in the show notes folks. So, you can just go to one place at themaverickshow.com. And then go to the show notes for this episode. They will find everything linked up that we have discussed in this episode.

And at this point, Jazz, are you ready to move into the lightning round?

Janna Zinzi: I’m ready.

Matt Bowles: Let’s do it. All right. What is one book maybe that has significantly impacted you over the years? You’d most recommend people should read.

Janna Zinzi: This is so nerdy and very nerdy feminist, but I’m going to go with Women Who Run with the Wolves. So, it is a collection of short stories. It’s by Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés, and it’s a collection of all these short stories from different cultures around the world that talk about the ways in which women have been stripped of their wild nature and also reclaim their wild nature. So, its cautionary tales, it’s fables, there’s love stories.

And so, she tells a story and then she will break it down and talk about the symbolism of all the parts in the story. My personal favorite one is the skeleton woman. I go back to that all the time. It’s about cycles of love and death. and rebirth and love. And it is so beautiful. So that is my go-to book. It’s dense, but it’s dope.

Matt Bowles: All right, Jazz, if you could have dinner with one person who’s currently alive today that you’ve never met, just you and that person for an evening of dinner and conversation, who would you choose?

Janna Zinzi: Rihanna. Straight up. I just love her trajectory. I really love that she’s never really liked given she feels very free in her expression, and I would ask her about her creative processes.

I would ask her about mama hood and her evolving relationship with A$AP Rocky because I’m so curious. I love it. I would ask her about musical inspiration when she’s going to have another album come out because we all want to know that. I don’t know. I just, I feel like it would just be so much fun to like to sit and chop it up with her.

And I’d probably just be staring like a dummy looking at her because she’s so stunning and gorgeous.

Matt Bowles: All right. Jazz, knowing everything that you know now if you could go back in time and give one piece of advice to your 18-year-old self, what would you say to 18-year-old jazz?

Janna Zinzi: I would tell 18-year-old jazz to always do what’s in your heart and don’t worry about timelines. Like, don’t make decisions based off of what timelines you think you need to be on, what timelines society is trying to tell you, and the societal constructs that you think you’re beholden to don’t get caught up in those traps because they’re not based on anything real or relevant to your life and experience and to just live and be free, live freely.

Matt Bowles: Jazz, of all the places that you have now traveled, what are three of your favorite destinations, you would most recommend other people should definitely check out.

Janna Zinzi: I go hard for Vietnam. I’ve already talked about it twice in this episode. I loved it so much. It’s just a fascinating, beautiful, interesting place with some of the kindest people, the most delicious food, deep history.

And if you really are into some like deep goddess stuff, check out Nha Trang and go to the Ponagar temple there. It is the home of the indigenous Cham people. They’re like goddess. And it’s a black goddess. When you go to the temple, it’s a black goddess in there and it’s their rice mother. So, if you can go to the Ponagar festival, that’s the jam.

Where else? New Orleans, Louisiana. Number two. I live here. It’s an incredible place to visit some of the most vibrant, brilliant people on the planet. If you’re a music lover, this is the spot. You like to eat good food; this is the spot.

Number three, I love Mexico and Mexico’s a big old country, but I’m going to say Mexico as a country because there’s so many different places that I’ve loved and enjoyed in Mexico for different reasons. The beaches across the board, magnificent, ceviche, top notch, and the people are just really warm and funky and real beautiful spiritual beings that I’ve connected within Mexico and in various places.

Matt Bowles: All right, Jazz, what are your top three bucket list destinations? These are places you have not yet been highest on your list, you’d most love to see.

Janna Zinzi: Japan. Dying to go to Japan, the whole country. I want to go everywhere in Japan. So, Japan’s number one, where else? You know, Bahia, Brazil is really high on my list because there’s very strong, that’s where the Afro Brazilian community is. There’s very deep spiritual energy there. And I really want to check out their carnival season. I feel like Mardi Gras, New Orleans is like my training ground for Bahia carnival. So that’s my two bucket lists. And then number three, it’s kind of a tie right now between Columbia and Thailand. I really want to go to Thailand. That’s been on my list for a while, but I don’t want to go to very touristy kind of situations.

Those are my three, but Japan and Bahia have been like in my brain and in my spirit for, for a very long time.

Matt Bowles: Those are really good picks. I was just in Salvador de Bahia in Brazil last month. And so, yeah, it was, it was everything that you hope it will be. So, when you’re ready to plan that trip. Hit me up also, Japan. I’ve been three times, one of my favorite countries for sure. So, I’m here for you when you’re ready to plan your trip as well.

Janna Zinzi: Yeah, you’ve got a pro tip. Hahaha

Matt Bowles: All right, Jazz, we have now come to the most important question of this interview, and we’re about to break an exclusive to the world, because I understand you have never announced this before. I am about to ask you to name your top five Hip-hop Emcees of all time. But before you name your five, I’m curious, can you share a little bit about what hip-hop means to you at this stage in your life?

So, you talked about coming up when you were younger, and you’re a young feminist, and you were navigating a lot of the different dynamics that were hip-hop at the time, at this point in your life, what does hip-hop mean to you?

Janna Zinzi: I understand now it’s a cultural touchstone of so many parts of not just my life, but it’s a global force straight up. And to be able to be witness that, a part of that evolution in whatever small drop, even as a listener or a dancer or someone that worked on it or whatever, it’s pretty magical. And it’s a source of inspiration for me in a lot of ways. It’s such a revolutionary force on so many levels, and it’s such a representation of black culture from the United States.

And it’s a force. And for me at this point in my life, and really it used to inform my burlesque. I danced mostly, uh, danced to a lot of hip-hop when I did burlesque. To me, I was like, I just hip-hop, like to me is made for burlesque. You know, all this other stuff is cool, but hip-hop. Yes.

Like, my favorite piece that I used to do was Jay Z and Kanye and Niggas in Paris. That was my favorite piece that I used to do. So, it gives me confidence and swag and also reminds me to be revolutionary in my thinking and how I use my voice and how I express myself.

Matt Bowles: All right. Jazz, who are your top five?

Janna Zinzi: All right. Number one, I have a tough relationship with this person, but they’re my top. Nas, number one. I don’t like what happened with him and Khalees, so that’s why he was knocked down a peg. But if I’m just looking from a lyrical standpoint, always Nas. He’s just, his level of storytelling is so sick to me. His voice and cadence are just swag, smooth, gritty. I think it’s also because he just reminds me of that New York sound and era. And it’s just kind of like true to form, you know? Like, your kind of, know what you’re going to get. But I don’t mean that in a bad way. Like he has a style that has lasted three decades. So, I’m going with Nas as number one.

Number 2. I’m going to go with Queen Latifah. The reason why I say that. is because of what she’s meant to me over the years. And she doesn’t really rap now, but she was such a leader for women in the industry, the variety of songs that she would have. It just spoke to me so much as a young person, you know, U.N.I.T.Y was like, yes, there is some feminist hip hop. Let’s go. Like I was what, 12 I think when that came out. And as I said, these boys were talking about bitches and something. And I’m like, Queen Latifah said, you can’t call me that, you know? So, it was like super validating. And I just love her entire trajectory and she’s ill with it. So, I’m going with her. She’s, my favorite.

Number 3. I’m going with Meg Thee Stallion, and I know that sounds crazy. I don’t care. Meg can outrap 95 percent of these dudes out here today making music. I don’t care what anybody tells me. With her eyes closed off the dome, she’s a sick freestyler. She, you know, a lot of her music is very, like, people are like, it’s so repetitive and blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, that’s because she’s making commercial music. But if you listen to her skills, no, Meg’s my girl. All the way and I love her trajectory and her come up and what she’s doing and what she’s had to go through. And I look at her as like a little sister and she’s an Aquarius and I just love everything that she’s doing right now. So that’s my number three.

Number 4, I want to say Ludacris just because I adore him. And I think he’s smart, hilarious and he was able to be like sexual, but like silly and in a way that was like never felt misogynistic and it was like party music and fun and it was clever. His videos were phenomenal. So yeah, I’m going to go with that. I’m going to go with him.

And then I think number 5, I was debating between Kendrick, and I wanted to put Outkast together as a group. Haha, I know that’s like catchy people.

Matt Bowles: I have had guests ask if they can name the entire Wu-Tang Clan as one pick out of their five. So, it would not be the first time that someone tried to squeak that by, you know, like get, get nine emcees for the price of one. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Janna Zinzi: That’s exactly right. Yeah. Totally. So, Kendrick is so masterful and so thoughtful and in a lot of different ways. His music really gets me hyped. Like today I was in the French Quarter, and this guy was driving by with DNA playing and I was just like, yes, I just appreciate him as a being. And Outkast, I mean, I don’t have to really say anything about that. They just, both of them have their own very distinct style. skill sets and cadence and swag and Southern vibes. So, I don’t know, that’s a lot of people, so maybe it’s not five, but

Matt Bowles: We’ll give you seven, seven emcees. That’s fair enough. We got; you got it. Amazing. I

Janna Zinzi: Yeheey, I don’t like rules. I don’t like boxes.

Matt Bowles: It’s all good. We’re giving you seven. And with that jazz, I want you to let folks know one more time how they can find you, and follow you on social media if they want to learn more about burlesque, if they want to learn more about the WanderWomxn community, upcoming trips, how do you want people to come into your universe?

Janna Zinzi: Sure. You can find me on Instagram at wanderwomxntravels, all one word. That’s on Instagram, on TikTok; wanderwomxntravels.com. I would love most if you signed up for the newsletter, that way we can really stay in touch. And also, you can find me, Janna Zinzi on IG; I’m jannazinzi.com.

Matt Bowles: We are going to link all of that up in the show notes. So, you can just go to one place at themaverickshow.com. Go to the show notes for this episode, there you’re going to find direct links for all the places to follow and connect with Jazz. This was amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Janna Zinzi: Thank you for having me. This was really fun. I really appreciated your questions. And I’m going to have to get offline your favorite Naples food picks. Hahaha

Matt Bowles: I mean, I’ll just drop it right now. I went to Sorbillo. Did you go to Sorbillo?

Janna Zinzi: So that’s where Zinzi is right across the street. Yes, that pizza changed my life.

Matt Bowles: It was ridiculous. I couldn’t believe I was eating it. I just couldn’t understand how someone made a piece of food that tasted that way. I wasn’t even, like, comprehending what was happening. I was like, what is going on in my life right now? It was crazy. So, yes, everybody. Get to Napoli and all of the other places that jazz recommended as well, because, uh, you put some amazing places on the map for folks that they have not been there.

Thank you for coming to the show. I think you are amazing. And I’m really hoping that a lot of folks from the Maverick community will join your community. Cause I think you’re doing amazing and important things. So, thank you for coming on.

Janna Zinzi: Thank you so much, Matt.

Matt Bowles: All right. Good night, everybody.