Matt Bowles: My guest today is Palle Bo. He is a radio producer, full-time digital nomad, and host of multiple podcasts including The Radio Vagabond, which crafts immersive audio experiences using field recordings and soundscapes from around the world that capture the true essence of each location, transporting the listeners to bustling markets, serene temples and everything in between. He became a full-time digital nomad with no base after he turned 50 and has now traveled to 127 countries over the last decade and was recently named Travel Podcaster of the Year.
Palle, welcome back to The Maverick Show.
Palle Bo: Thank you, Matt. I can’t believe it’s been this long.
Matt Bowles: When I first interviewed you it was almost eight years ago. You are episode #15 of The Maverick Show. So, for anybody that has not heard that episode, we are definitely going to link it up in the show notes.
Palle Bo: I was such a fresh nomad back then.
Matt Bowles: Well, let’s just start this episode off by setting the scene and talk about where we are recording from today. I am actually in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Asheville, North Carolina. Palle, where are you?
Palle Bo: Asheville is beautiful. I want to come back. I am in Chiang Mai and I’ve been here quite a while. It’s getting close to six months here, so actually tomorrow I’m going to Singapore. That also serves as partly a visa run because I got the DTV visa so I can stay six months at a time, but also just to see something else. It’s the longest time I’ve been in the same place in the last 10 years. So, this is brand new for me. And it’s getting a little bit Groundhog Day where I wake up in the morning and say, well, today is probably going to be similar to yesterday, so I need something else.
Matt Bowles: Well, the last time that you and I hung out in person was actually in Thailand. We were in Bangkok; we were on a rooftop and it was your 60th birthday party. And one of the things that I remember about that night is that I was surrounded by world travelers that you had invited to your birthday party. And I feel like I was the least traveled person on that entire rooftop that night. And I just had such incredible conversations with people. But I want to ask you, your 60th birthday in Bangkok, what do you remember about that night? What were the highlights for you?
Palle Bo: Yeah, we were going to the Extraordinary Travel Festival that takes place every second year. The first time was in Yerevan, and when we were there, it was in Bangkok. And also, next time in October, it’s going to be back in Bangkok. So, I knew that I was going to be there and I knew that it was going to be my 60th birthday. So, I thought I have to do something and a lot of my friends will be there. So, I made an invitation in the WhatsApp group saying, hey, I found this rooftop and I told them that we were coming, a bunch of people and if anybody want to join, please do. And you came. And a lot of my friends came that I hadn’t seen for a while and a bunch of people that I never met before, but they were also part of this world traveler community came there. So, yeah, so many amazing people and quite a few people who had been to every country in the world. I also felt like a rookie.
Matt Bowles: Well, if people want to hang out with you in person, you mentioned the upcoming extraordinary travel fest this year put on by our mutual friend Ric Gazarian, who Maverick Show listeners know because I’ve interviewed him on the podcast that is going to be coming up later this year. And if people would like to come to that, we have a special discount for Maverick Show listeners. So, we will link that up in the show notes and an opportunity to meet Palle Bo in person. So, we started off talking about how our first interview for The Maverick Show was eight years ago, which was at the very early part of your digital nomad journey. You had turned 50, you had sold all of your stuff, and you were traveling the world as an itinerant digital nomad. A decade later, when you reflect back on that interview that we did eight years ago, if we dropped that version of Palle Bo into your life today, what would surprise him the most?
Palle Bo: I think that I would be mostly surprised that I would still be doing it. When I started traveling, I thought it was going to be a two year, maybe four-year trip and then I’d be back again living my normal Life. So, I think I’d be surprised that I would still be doing it. And even though I do have a home base now here in Chiang Mai, I found this small apartment. I still see myself as a nomad. I still travel. This year I’ll be going to Singapore now. And then in June, I’ll be in Richmond, Virginia and also be in Washington, D.C. for 4th of July, which should be quite interesting. Later this year I’m going to Kazakhstan. I might be going to Bangladesh. Yeah, a few other places.
Matt Bowles: So, after a decade of itinerant world travel without a base or why did you recently decide to establish a base? What motivated you to do that now?
Palle Bo: I had been playing around with the idea. I was also here a year ago because I go to the Nomad Summit that takes place in January every year. Somebody mentioned, oh, you know, that you can get a decent apartment for next to nothing here. I think the one that I ended up finding, it’s 12,000 Baht a month, and I believe that’s $350 or something like that per month. And it’s 50 square meters and two bedrooms, an office, a kitchen, a living room. So, it’s got everything I need. It’s not huge, but it serves as a base. And then I started looking into it when I got back here in December and went out and saw a few and thought, actually it would be kind of nice to have a home base. And then I decided to pull the trigger on it. And it’s been so weird, Matt, because nesting. I feel like a teenager who gets my first apartment.
So now it dawned on me when I went to the night market here in Chiang Mai and I saw a cool t-shirt and I thought, hey, wait a minute, I can buy a t-shirt now. Without thinking, which one do I need to throw out because I only travel with that many. Every time I buy something, I need to get rid of some stuff. And I’ve been buying way too much. I’ve been buying clothes and I have a huge computer screen. I got a microphone arm and some lights and even an on-air sign here in my office. And so, I buy a lot of things. I even bought a blender and an air fryer for my kitchen. So, yeah, I’m nesting. It’s so much fun. It’s so much fun, but it’s different.
Matt Bowles: How do you think about the concept of home and how has that evolved from your life in Denmark, where you’re from, and then over the course of your nomad journey for the last decade and now you having a base. Again, how do you currently think about the concept of home? What does that mean to you?
Palle Bo: Hmm. When I lived in Denmark, I had a big house. And also there in these last 10 years, I’ve been kind of mocking the previous version of me where I bought a lot of unnecessary stuff because I had a place to put it. And a month after I got this apartment, I’m right back there. I buy a lot of stuff that I don’t really need because I got a place to put it. But home is where I feel comfortable. Obviously, I’m not around my family, but I have a place where I can host people, so I invite people to come here. And I bought a big air mattress so I can turn my office into a guest room. So, my kids are coming out here. I have two daughters and they’re coming out here in November and staying with me for a few weeks.
And I chose Chiang Mai partly because it’s very affordable, but also because it has a big community of nomads. And I also try to integrate as much as I can with the locals. I’ve started playing paddle every week. I joined the local Rotary Club. So, I’m trying to immerse myself in the local culture and hang out with people who are here. So, I have a handful of friends and that’s growing every week with more friends. So, I’m trying to build a community. So, this is my home for now or my home base. And then from here I can travel light with a carry on and try to be a grown-up version of Matt Bowles.
Matt Bowles: Well, you have traveled to a lot more countries than I have. You’re up to 127.
Palle Bo: Really?
Matt Bowles: Yes, sir.
Palle Bo: Do you know how many you’ve been to?
Matt Bowles: Probably like 80, because I keep going back to countries.
Palle Bo: Yeah, me too. At some point I said, oh, I want to go to every country in the world. I really don’t say that anymore.
Matt Bowles: Really?
Palle Bo: Yeah. No, I keep going back to places I like and if I can visit a new country, it’s cool, but it’s not my goal. If that was my goal, I wouldn’t be going back to Singapore. I wouldn’t go back to Vietnam. It’s not my goal anymore.
Matt Bowles: Is it not a goal or is it just not a time sensitive goal? Meaning like in the back of your mind over the next 10 years, would you like to get to all of the countries eventually you’re just not rushing it, or is it actually something that you have no intention of ever completing?
Palle Bo: If I get close, I might see if I can go for the last ones. But it’s also because I am in that community of all these extreme travelers. And to me, it feels like it’s something a lot of people are doing. I know that not a lot of people. They go to every country of the world. I think it’s only around 300 and more people have been to outer space than I’ve been to every country in the world. But I don’t see it as something truly unique anymore because I know so many people who have done it. And for me, it’s mostly about having a good time and doing what I like. I still have quite a few places that I want to see again, and I’m sure we get into that, but it’s all about having a good time. And I’m getting older.
Matt Bowles: Since our last interview eight years ago. What is one place you went with zero expectations that completely blew you away?
Palle Bo: I would say it all happened within the same few months. It was a year, I was traveling through the balcony, and I knew that I was going to go to Bosnia and Montenegro and that whole region, Kosovo and Croatia. And then I thought, well, I’m in Greece, so why not visit Albania as well? It’s probably going to be uninteresting. And then I’ll leave again, but I can tick a thing off my box. And then it blew me away. Albania is truly amazing, and I so want to go back and spend more time. I was mostly in Tirana and around that area. I was lucky enough to say yes to a Facebook request from a guy who turned out to be a local tour operator. I don’t know why he sent me a friend request, but we became super good friends and he was never, ever trying to sell me anything. On the contrary, he would take me places and not charge me anything. He just turned out to be a really good friend and shout out to Adam and it made my trip. Yeah, Albania is amazing.
And the second country was just a month later, I think I went to Belarus, and again there I had a local friend who. Or a friend of a friend who lives there. Belarus is amazing as well. It’s not like I’m saying I agree with the government, but an amazing, beautiful, beautiful country. Also, one of those places I want to go back to. So those two. I had zero expectations, but they blew me away. And I would say even Albania blew me more away than Croatia did because my expectations for Croatia was so high. Since then, I did go back to Croatia and it is great. I see why people are raving about it. But when the expectations are high, it really has to be really good to blow me away, but with zero expectations. Wow, Albania. I’m going to come back.
Matt Bowles: And tell me about a place that challenged you either physically or emotionally or culturally, and what that experience taught you about yourself.
Palle Bo: This was kind of my own fault. When I was entering Ghana, I went up to the immigrations, and I knew that I needed to prove that I had the yellow fever vaccination. So, I handed over that little yellow vaccination book, and I have all the stamps. Every single stamp that I need is in that book. And the guy took it and said, well, your name is not on the book. And I said, oh, isn’t it? I’ve been traveling with this for I don’t know how many years, and it’s never been an issue. No, your name is supposed to be written here. And I’m not talking some kind of official stamp or anything. It just has to be written with a ball pen on the front of this card. And then I said, well, no, can I take the book and go back in line, write my name and come back? No, it has to be the doctor. And then he went more into, I’ll have to confiscate the book and you cannot enter. So, okay, this is serious. This is not just a joke anymore.
And then he mumbled something with the word money. I am not 100% sure he asked me for a bribe, but it sure as hell sounded like it. So, I said, can I speak to your superior? And a woman just happened to be walking by, and she turned to me and said, yes, that’s me. What’s the problem? And she said, well, technically he’s right. The name should be on the book and it should be written by the Dark Doctor, but we don’t ask for bribes here in Ghana. She let me in and she said, as soon as you leave Ghana, go back to Denmark and go back to the doctor. Have him write the name on the cardboard because it has to be the doctor who writes it. But I was able to enter Ghana. And, yeah, that was challenging because if they took that away from me, that would not only be my ticket to go into Ghana, but to so many other countries. And like I said, I have all the stamps in there. So that was quite challenging, but turned out to be a good story that you can hear in my podcast.
Matt Bowles: And once you got into Ghana, what was your experience like there? What did you think of Ghana?
Palle Bo: Ghana is amazing. Yeah, I spent some time in Accra and Then I went up to Tamale in the northern part of the country, and then I went overland all the way down to the Gold Coast and back to Accra. So, I really love Ghana. Also went to some small villages and. And it’s an amazing country. Yeah, it’s one of my favorite countries. And I really want to go back and experience more.
Matt Bowles: What is one destination that you’ve traveled to that you feel a lot of people really have the wrong impression about?
Palle Bo: I’d probably say Saudi Arabia or Iran. Those are the nicest people I’ve met. And I can even broaden that out to say most of the Muslim countries, they are so friendly. By far the friendliest people I’ve met was in Iran. And they’re so hospitable, and you get invited to people’s homes and invited for tea, and they’re so friendly. And when I was doing a road trip around Saudi Arabia, all the way from Riyadh to Jeddah, one morning, I didn’t have breakfast, so I went into a gas station and just wanted to buy something to eat in the car. And apparently, they didn’t take a visa or master there, so I could only pay with a local MADA card that they have in Saudi Arabia. And then I just thought, well, that’s okay. I’m not that high. It’s not like I’m going to die of hunger. But so, I put it back and said, that’s okay.
And then there was a random guy standing in line who said, no, I’ll pay for you. I said, what do you mean? And it was a regular guy. It wasn’t a rich Saudi. It was a regular guy in overalls that was on his way to work. And I said, oh, no, I can’t let you do that. No, don’t worry about it. No, I will. He said, what do you want? I said, well, this croissant. I picked up a plastic bag with a croissant. And he said, no, you need more. And then he left his spot in the line and took a basket and then walked around this shop and put all kinds of things in there. You need some orange juice. You need some biscuits. You need some chips. You need some. So, I walked out of there with a plastic bag full of stuff. He didn’t even wait for me to say thank you or anything. So natural. He saw somebody in need and he helped me. It was so weird. And the weirdest thing is that exact same thing happened later on that trip in Saudi Arabia. So, they’re so friendly. And a lot of people have completely wrong conceptions about what people are like there.
Matt Bowles: I have had similar experiences around the world where you are traveling somewhere and you are really stuck in a situation. I remember when I went to Lagos, Nigeria, for my first time, and all of a sudden, I had just eaten at a coffee shop and had some food and drink and I went to pay and my credit card didn’t work. The guy takes me to the ATM machine and then the ATM card doesn’t work either. So now I have a bill to pay. I have no money. I can’t get money. I can’t use my credit card. And this local guy just walks up and he goes, what’s the problem, bro? You got a bill to pay? I was like, yeah. He’s like, you can’t get your ATM credit work? I was like, no. He goes, how much is it? And then he pays the guy gives him a tip and then goes and gets back in his car. I was like, bro, how do I get that back to you? He goes, don’t worry about it, man. Welcome to Legos. And I was like, what an unbelievably over the top, warm welcome for me into a city. And I feel like as we travel around the world, for me, this is one of the most incredible takeaways that I have had, is just restoring my faith in humanity across all different continents, all different cultures. When I am in need and when I am in a place where I need help, always people will come to me and they will help me. And for me, that’s been one of the most beautiful parts that I’ve taken away from all of my travels.
Palle Bo: It’s unbelievable. And also, many people who don’t travel think that the world is such a dangerous place, and it’s really not. It’s really not. Of course, you need to use your common sense and don’t walk down a dark alley in the middle of the night. But 99.999% of the people all over the world are nice and want to do nice.
Matt Bowles: Well, I also want to talk about the podcast that you host, The Radio Vagabond, which I have been listening to for as long as you’ve been doing it, which has been about almost a decade now. And I’m wondering, just for people that have never heard the show and this is their first-time hearing about it, we’re going to link it up in the show notes and I want to encourage people to check it out, but it’s quite different than the style that I do mine. So, can you share a little bit about what the show is, what people can expect, and why you do it the way you do it?
Palle Bo: Yeah, well, I bring my microphone anywhere and record a lot from the streets, from markets, from mosques, all kinds of places. So, you can hear the sound in the background. And then I tell stories around that. And if I meet somebody, it can be somebody where I made an appointment, or it can also just be random guy that I meet on the street and then just, oh, you sound interesting. Or can I ask you something here? So, it’s a lot of different, different things. And then I tell stories about the places as well, but it’s mostly about the people I meet. So, a lot of field recordings and a lot of layers and music and storytelling.
Matt Bowles: Yeah, it’s very different stylistically than mine, and I think it’s a really great companion because one of the things that I do on my show is I’m interviewing travelers like yourself. One of the things that you do on your show, you also interview some travelers, but you interview a lot of, of local people in the places that you meet at a market or on the street, and you just pull out and you do. I was recently listening to the episode that you recorded in Guinea in West Africa. And as you go through the episode, one minute you’ll be walking down the street and you’re talking into the microphone, explaining where you’re going, and you can hear cars. And then there’s like kids saying, hey, you know, they’re talking to you and you’re talking back to the kids as you’re going by them.
And then you arrive somewhere and you’re meeting someone for dinner and you record some of the conversation. This is a local person and you’re asking them about their life there and the politics of the country or things of that nature. And you’re just getting a local perspective on something. And then you cut all of this into the podcast episode. And so, it’s really an amazing portfolio that you’ve now built of all of your travels and the way that you’re documenting the local places that you go and creating content around it. So, I recommend your show as a great companion to mine because it’s quite stylistically different, but I really enjoy it.
Palle Bo: I have so much recorded that I haven’t started editing yet because it’s a lot of work. When I do one 30-minute episode, it takes me 30 hours to do just the editing, not the recording of the field recordings, but just the editing from when I start editing an episode till it’s ready to go out. So, it’s a lot of work. And recently I’ve been having more focus on my actual work producing podcasts for clients that will pay me, because having your own travel podcast is not a gold mine, at least not for me. But it’s a passion project, and I’m really getting ready to get the passion back. And I have started editing a little bit now, and the first one of the new ones that is coming out, it’s actually an interview that we did in Bangkok like a year and a half ago. So that’s the first one coming out, and I will make sure it drops at the same time as this episode. So, if you want to hear my conversation with Matt and a YouTuber named Phil, you can go to theradiovagabond.com or just search for it. You can hear Matt’s story on my podcast, even though it’s a year and a half old.
Matt Bowles: Well, Maverick Show listeners know Phil Marcus because he has also been on The Maverick Show. If anybody missed that episode, really incredible episode. So, we’ll link that up in the show notes as well. And then, of course, when your episode comes out, Palle, we’ll stick that in the show notes as well so people can hear me on your show. Well, you have recorded hundreds of podcast episodes locally in the destinations that you’ve traveled to around the world. How has that style of podcasting shaped the way that you experience travel? Does it deepen connection? Does it change how you see people in places? Does it open unexpected doors? What have you found?
Palle Bo: It definitely opens doors, and I have an excuse to get experiences that I wouldn’t have otherwise. For example, you mentioned Ghana before. I’d heard about a place that does fantasy coffins, like really beautiful coffins shaped like a lion or a car or a Coke bottle or anything like crazy stuff. And it’s such a unique place that two sitting American presidents have visited it. I think Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, when they were president, they went to this workshop. So, it’s a very, very unique place. So, with my podcast, I was able to go and get. It’s not really a place that’s open to the public, but I reached out to them and said, can I come by and do an interview? So, I went there and walked around with the coffin maker. And that’s just one of many, many, many places where I have an excuse to speak to people. If I just go up and say, can I come and speak to you? Because I’m just curious, they probably say, well, why? When I say, well, I do this podcast, can I come? And then it opens doors. So, it’s really a cool thing. And I recommend people to bring a microphone or just say that you have a travel blog or something, because it can open doors.
Matt Bowles: Now, on the flip side, have you ever felt tension between experiencing something and being in the moment versus documenting it?
Palle Bo: Yeah, sometimes I’m in the middle of a really powerful moment and my brain is thinking, this is probably a good story. Should I record this or should I just be here? I have to remind myself to just experience it fully. But especially if I can see something is not going the way I planned. I always think, first, this is annoying, this was not supposed to happen. And my second thought is, oh, I’m in the middle of a good story, because those are the good stories. So that’s when I normally switch on a small microphone in my pocket or just start recording on my phone. But I can still experience things and still record at least so I have some background stuff. So, it’s not a big effort. But that’s also one of the reasons why it takes me so long to edit the episodes, because I have so much raw material I need to go through. For a 30-minute episode, I typically have three to five hours of stuff because I just record way more than I need and then I have to go and mine for the little golden nuggets in there.
Matt Bowles: Well, you started this digital nomad lifestyle in your 50s and you’ve been doing it consistently into your 60s. How does full time travel feel different at this stage in your life than when you were younger?
Palle Bo: It does feel different in a good way. Earlier it was more about ticking boxes and seeing as much as possible and moving fast. My 2022, I was in 30 countries. 37 If I counted the countries I went back to. The same year I moved more than 100 times; 105 Times I counted it in one year. And that was even including a full month in Koh Lanta, Thailand. So, I was moving fast, but it felt okay. I don’t know if I’ll do that again because that was a lot. So now I’m more going deeper, staying longer, having longer conversation and really understanding what the country is like instead of just passing through. And I think I appreciate the small moments more now. A good conversation, a local meal, or just settling somewhere and taking it all in. I probably rushed a bit too much, but I did what felt right. And for me it was like an interval sprint where sometimes I would go fast and then when I got to A point where I’m not really appreciating it because I’m moving too fast. I knew that I needed to slow down, so I stayed longer back then and got bored. But where I am right now, I’m getting more of a slow mat now I’m still traveling, but more slow.
Matt Bowles: So, after all these years on the road, how do you experience loneliness versus freedom and has there been tradeoffs there over the years?
Palle Bo: I don’t really feel loneliness. I’m pretty comfortable in my own company and I try to meet people, but I can easily not meet many people other than the people in the supermarket and in the building physically and still stay connected. I really do my best to stay connected to my friends back home and all the friends I’ve made around the world. It’s hard because there are so many, but I really make an effort to stay connected. So, I have a lot of friends that I chat too regularly. I even have some friends where we tend to life gets in the way and we don’t really speak for a month and then say, oh, we should speak more often. And then we’ve set up a fixed time of the week where the calendar pops up and we just jump on and shoot the breeze for half an hour just to catch up. So, I have a bunch of friends that I chat to regular, both in writing and also do calls. In that sense, I still have my circle of people, but it is a thing that I want to explore more is about how you build connections. And it’s a project that I’m working on right now that I can’t really share much about. But hopefully in the near future I have something coming up where I really want to explore that more about building connections. When you pop into a place where you don’t know anyone.
Matt Bowles: Well, one of the things that I’ve noticed about you over the years is that you are very involved with a lot of different digital nomad communities, travel communities. You’re regularly attending these events and connecting with people and building and maintaining your community with other travelers in that way. But one of the other things that you do that I have been particularly impressed with that sometimes-other travelers don’t do. Because a lot of times travelers stay in these bubbles of hanging out with other nomads, hanging out with other travelers, hanging out with other expats, whatever it may be. One of the things that you do is you are very intentional about building local connections in the place that you go.
And so, one of the things, for example, I was listening to your Guinea podcast episode and one of the things that you did in that episode is you met up with two different local people there. And you mentioned that you had met them through the couch surfing app, not necessarily because you were going to stay at their place, but just as a way to create a local social connection with the person that lives there. And I feel like a lot of people do not take that step and do that. So, can you share a little bit about that or other techniques that you have for really making those local connections and how important that has been for your travel experiences?
Palle Bo: Absolutely. Couchsurfing is an amazing tool to meet friends. The main purpose of Couchsurfing is not to get a free place to stay. It’s not a free hotel room. It’s a great way to meet people. And I’ve done that a lot. And I even did it on a recent trip where I was in Moldova and Ukraine, where I couch surfed there. But what I did in Conakry was I already had booked a small hotel over, but then I went to couch surfing, where you can also reach out to people and say, hey, you want to meet up and have a cup of coffee or lunch or something? So, I met a guy for lunch. I met two guys from Chalon for a beer in the afternoon, and then I met a guy for dinner as well. So, my trip was completely different because of couch surfing on that trip. And I wasn’t even staying with people. I was just meeting people for a chat. So, it’s a great tool.
And here in Chiang Mai, I’ve joined the local Rotary Club, have been to Toastmasters session. I plan to go again. I’ve started playing paddle, where I meet both locals and expats and vistas. Here I go to a weekly standup show where I started hanging out with the people there. And it’s all the regulars. And I even did a set once, which I’ve never done before and probably will never do again, but it was a lot of fun. Yeah. So go out and meet people. And then I know a few people that I met in the nomad community that actually live here more or less full time. So yesterday I went for pizza with a guy who actually turned out when I met him, that we’re from the same town and he’s got an apartment back in Denmark, but he doesn’t live there, and that’s 50 meters away from where my daughter lives. So, it’s so random.
Matt Bowles: Well, you mentioned Moldova, which is a country that I have not been to. However, you and I are oftentimes sharing a bottle of wine together. And one of the things that people have told me about Moldova is that it has the largest wine cellar, subterranean wine cave in the world. Have you been there and what is it like?
Palle Bo: Yes, I have been to both of them. I went to Cricova when I was there the first time, which is the most beautiful one and it’s huge, but it’ the biggest. And this time around, I went to the biggest one. I don’t even remember the name. It’s unbelievable. It’s Cricova is 100 km of roads underground in an old limestone mine where the temperature is cool and steady all year round. So, they use it for storing wine. It’s amazing.
Matt Bowles: That is amazing. Definitely high on my list. People keep telling me about it that I have to go there. And so, I have it super, super high on my list.
Palle Bo: And when you’re going, Matt, let me hook you up with Jan, who is the Moldovan couch surfing ambassador. He hosted me and my friend from Florida, who’s also one of the five American couch surfing ambassadors. And we had an amazing time, a great host, and it totally made that trip stand out in the capital of Moldova. So definitely go to Moldova is amazing.
Matt Bowles: I will definitely hit you up when I’m ready to plan that trip. My friend, you mentioned the digital Nomad communities that you’re connected with, both in Chiang Mai as well as around the world. And you and I both have digital nomad friends of all ages. And some of the scenes are younger than others. And I’m curious if you feel now, after living this lifestyle for a decade, do you think that this travel lifestyle keeps you young or do you feel that it makes you more aware of aging?
Palle Bo: No, I don’t really think that much of my age. I don’t know if the people around me think, oh, I’m hanging out with this old dude. I was in Japan and some friends of mine, their son, he was traveling around Japan and he’s like mid-20s. And we decided to go on a road trip around Japan, just me and him and. And at the end he said, I must admit when I thought I’m going to travel around with this guy who’s older than my father, would that be weird? And he said he didn’t feel that at all. So, I don’t know if he was just saying that to be nice to me, but I really don’t think of it as if I know that I have a higher age than the average nomad, but I don’t see it that way and it’s really not an issue. Many of my friends are in their 30s and 40s, and I have a bunch that are my age as well. But it varies a lot. And I don’t think age is really that much of an issue. And I don’t think I’ve changed in the way that I travel. I still fairly healthy and I try to stay healthy. I still need to lose a few pounds, but I’m trying to live a healthy lifestyle. I’m in the building, there’s a gym, so I go to the gym every day and I make in protein smoothies in my new blender. And so, I’m trying to live healthy and I can still keep up with most people.
Matt Bowles: I totally agree with that. My experience has been, it’s very interesting to contrast it with maybe a more traditional experience, like when I go back to a high school reunion or something and I’m spending time with some of my high school friends that never left the city where we went to high school and all of that. And it’s really interesting because a lot of those friend groups are all people that are nearly the exact same age and they only hang out with people that are in their same age cohort. It creates like this cultural dynamic, I feel, where they’re only being exposed to the perspectives and the cultural interests and stuff like that of people that are in their same age group now maybe they have kids and that’s like a way younger age group. And now they’re exposed to some of the kids interests maybe.
But for me, being in the digital nomad world, I am regularly hanging out with people from their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, constantly on the regular. And a lot of that age disparity that exists in terms of segregating friend or social groups in a traditional place, I feel like a lot of that just dissolves. And I feel like I get so much value and I learn so much from people from obviously different cultures around the world, but also different age groups. I really feel like the fact that I hang out with people from all those different generations and different age groups, I learned from each of them different things. And I do feel that that is just so valuable. And for me, I definitely feel that it keeps me young and it is one of the best things about the lifestyle.
Palle Bo: Yeah, I totally agree.
Matt Bowles: Palle, if somebody is listening to this right now and they’re thinking about taking the leap into a lifestyle of long-term world travel, they’re interested in becoming a digital nomad. What would you want them to understand that you’ve learned over your decade of doing this advice you would give to someone just starting out?
Palle Bo: Yeah, my main advice would be don’t do like I did. I sold everything before I started traveling. So, I got rid of all my stuff and my house and my car and my furniture and started traveling. So, I say, well, keep your place, try it on for a few months, go travel. And if you think it’s for you, if you can live with that, go back and sell your stuff. That’s my main advice, try it on for size before actually doing it, which is different than what I did. It could have happened that after a few months I would say, well, it’s not for me. And then I what do I now I need to go back and get something and start over. I would say that and start out small. You don’t even need to leave the country, especially if you’re in a big country. Maybe if you’re in Denmark, you do need to leave the country, but just go. If you’re in the us, just go to another state for a few months and be a nomad that way and then you can expand from there.
Matt Bowles: Palle, reflecting back on a decade of world travel, what for you feels more true now than it did back then?
Palle Bo: I think it’s actually how similar we all are. No matter where you go, people are the same. They want the same basic things to feel safe, to take care of their families, have some kind of purpose. And that’s easy to forget when you just read the headline. Another thing is how curious people are. Almost everywhere I go, I’m interested in their life, but they’re also interested in me and what’s it like in Denmark and what’s it like traveling. And they want to connect as well. Maybe the thing that people miss the most is how hospitality is often strongest in the place we’re told to be afraid of.
Matt Bowles: How do you think that all of these travel experiences to 127 countries have impacted you as a person?
Palle Bo: It has made me more open minded. When you travel a lot and meet people from completely different backgrounds, you realize that your way of seeing things is just to one version of the whole thing. It’s also made me a lot more curious and a bit more, I would say, comfortable of being uncomfortable and flexible and go with the flow and don’t freak out if something unexpected happens. Because when you travel a lot, especially in some parts of the world, something unexpected will happen and you just have to go with the flow. So, it’s made me more chill and relaxed in that way. And I don’t freak out if something unexpected happens and if something is uncomfortable. I’d also say it’s probably made me a little bit more human in a way, because when you sit down with people from different parts of the world, you, as I said, you realize how similar we are. Same hope, same worries, and just different circumstances.
Matt Bowles: Well, I think that is the perfect place to end the main portion of this interview. And at this point, Palle, are you ready to move in to The Lightning Round?
Palle Bo: I am.
Matt Bowles: All right. What is one travel hack that you use that you can recommend?
Palle Bo: Well, my best travel hack is not an app or anything. It’s a rule I set for myself, actually, on the first day when I came to Tallinn, which was the first country 10 years ago. And the rule goes like this. When in doubt, say yes. If I’m offered something that I’m not sure if I want to do, I have to say yes. Unless it’s completely stupid or dangerous or will break the bank for me, of course. And that has really ended up in some serendipitous moments for me and situations I could never have planned. Almost every great travel story I have starts with, should I do that? And say, oh, I have to say yes. Like, if somebody invites me home for tea or a guy in Austin says, hey, you want to come stay with me in the trailer park? Of course. And I go and stay with Big Ed and Genie in a trailer park, and I’m still communicating with Big Ed every day. I’m not even kidding. And that was seven years ago. It’s amazing.
So, if it’s something that I’m really not, I don’t know, should I do that? Should I eat that weird food? Should I take a spontaneous detour or jump in the back of a scooter? I know it’s The Lightning Round, but I have a story for you. A guy I met in Benin, just next to Togo and Ghana, say, hey, I’m going to a voodoo ceremony at my uncle’s place. You want to come? And I actually had made other plans that day, but I thought, well, yeah, yeah, let’s do that. So, a few hours later, driving with this guy into a small village, I’m in a dark room, and there was chanting and open fire. And at the end, the old guy, he chops the heads of two chickens. And with the blood still running from them and their wings flapping, he was would be putting them right up in my face. I have one thing that I don’t like, it’s flapping birds. And here we have two chickens without heads still flapping their wings in my heads. And it was really weird, but it was just because I said, yeah, that was amazing.
Matt Bowles: Did you document it for the podcast?
Palle Bo: It’s still on my hard drive and it will be coming out and you can hear me screaming “No, No, No”.
Matt Bowles: Palle, what is one podcasting lesson that you have learned over your decade of travel podcasting that you wish you knew when you were just starting out?
Palle Bo: I wish I’d realized that it’s not so much about the destinations, it’s about the story. In the beginning, I thought people would tune into the podcast to hear about the facts about a new country, and I do have that in my podcast. But it’s more about the human story, the emotions, my ups and downs, and the people I meet. You can be in the most exotic place in the world, but if there’s no story or no human interaction, there’s really no episode. The matching happens when I stop chasing travel content and just being curious and letting the world hit me. And some of my best episodes weren’t planned at all. They just came because I was open and seeing where the conversation goes.
Matt Bowles: All right, of all the places that you have now traveled, what are three of your favorite destinations you would most recommend other people should definitely check out.
Palle Bo: I would say Uzbekistan. It really feels like stepping into the Silk Road fairy tale. The architecture is stunning. In places like Samarkand, it’s just insane and hardly anyone talks about it. And then it’s super, super cheap. I mentioned Ghana before. I have to mention it again. It’s the energy and the people, and it’s just so amazing. And a third place that’s also a little bit off the beaten path, it’s not on many people’s radar, is Azerbaijan. It’s such a weird and fascinating mix. You’ve got the ultra-modern city of Baku. They got skyscrapers that are crazy, like the flame towers and stuff like that. And I was not expecting that. But then, then right around the corner, you have the old city, and you’ve got ancient culture and landscape and bubbling mud volcanoes just outside the city. So, Azerbaijan is also a cool place to visit.
Matt Bowles: Yeah. I can remember I took the overnight train from Tbilisi, Georgia to Baku, and as I was taking the train with a friend of mine, she was reading in her guidebook about what we should expect in Baku, since neither one of us had ever been and the guidebook says, said this is what would happen if Paris and Dubai had a love child. And we sort of looked at each other and we’re like, what? And then we get there and we’re like, oh, got it. It’s kind of is because it has all those like Parisian facades on the old Soviet buildings now. And then it has those big skyscraper towers with flames in them and all that stuff. But I agree, I thought it was a very fascinating city. And you have the, the Zoroastrian fire temples and all of this really old history there that you can dive into. So that is definitely a super interesting place. Palle, what are currently your top three bucket list destinations, places you have not yet been that you would most love to visit?
Palle Bo: I have this in the back of my mind. Let’s do it like a chart and start with number three. It would be doing a train ride through the Canadian Rockies because I love the idea of just slowing down and watching epic landscape roll by just outside the windows. I have not been to the Canadian Rockies and that’s the way I want to experience that on a train ride. Number two is Namibia. I’ve been offered to go on short trips there, but I’ve said no because it’s such a huge country and I want to spend more time there. So, it’s not something you can do in a weekend. And it’s supposed to be one of the most visually stunning places in the world with deserts and lights and emptiness and the people are super friendly as well is what I hear. And number one on my list is still the Galapagos Islands. I don’t know if you’ve been there, Matt, but it’s one of those places where nature is completely in charge and I want to experience that and hopefully do some scuba diving as well. So, Galapagos is my number one.
Matt Bowles: I have been to the Galapagos Islands. I was there in 2017. And I did a scuba dive and then we went out, did a four-night catamaran.
Palle Bo: Oh.
Matt Bowles: Where there’s about 16 people on a catamaran. You have a chef on board that’s cooking your meals and then you have a marine biologist on board.
Palle Bo: Wow.
Matt Bowles: And so, the first part of the day, you’re hiking on land, you’re walking around and they’re pointing out to you stuff. And then in the afternoon you are snorkeling and you are immersing with all of the sea life there, which, as you mentioned, this is an incredibly unique ecosystem and it’s been so protected that the animals do not fear humans as predators. So, whereas normally an animal might swim away from you, here, they want to swim up to you and play with you and hang out. And it’s a remarkable experience.
Palle Bo: I hear that they’re still controlling that. Not too many tourists come at the same time, so they got restrictions on. Also, one of the reasons why it’s quite expensive to do that. But, yeah, I really want to do that.
Matt Bowles: Yeah, it’s super special. Alright, Palle, at this point, I want you to let folks know a few different things. Let’s talk about, first of all, where you are going to be. I mentioned that you are deeply connected with a lot of different travel conferences and events. If folks wanted to link up with you in person over the next year here, what are some of the conferences and events that you’re going to be at or involved with?
Palle Bo: I’m actually in three different kinds of circles when it comes to the travel community. We talked about Extraordinary Travel Festival with the extreme travelers. So that’s one. We talked about the Nomad Community—Nomad Summit, Nomad Cruise, those kinds of things. So that’s more for digital nomads. And then the third one is Travel Content Creators and I’m involved with TBEX, the oldest and the biggest travel creator conference in the world. And I try to go to every single one. I’m going to do two of the three they’re doing this year. Going to be in Richmond, Virginia in June for their conference there. And as I mentioned, I’m going to head up to Washington, D.C. because it’s so close for 4th of July. Then they’re having another one in Kazakhstan in August that I’m going to go to. I’m going to miss the one in Fargo in North Dakota, but I’ve been there before and I’m glad I’m not missing the other two. And then I’ll be at the Nomad Summit again in January here in Chiang Mai. They have a conference in July at the same time as I’m going to be in Washington, D.C. they have one in Estonia, a new conference. I wish I could be two places at the same time, but I can’t do that. That’s kind of where people can find me. And then obviously back at the Extraordinary Travel Festival in Bangkok in October.
Matt Bowles: And so, what we’ll do is we’ll link some of those events up in the show notes. So, if people are interested in whichever category of events and want to potentially link up in person, we’ll link those events up in the show notes where they’re happening and how you can get more information on them. I also want to ask you, Palle, if you can share a little bit about what you are up to these days, the freelancing services that you offer and what types of customers might be a good fit to work with you.
Palle Bo: I’m a professional podcast producer, so I edit, I host some other podcasts. But most of my clients, I help them do the recordings in as good a quality as they can and then I take the raw recordings and turn that into a ready to go out podcast episodes. And some of them I also handle putting it out there. I edit and I enhance the sound. So that’s my main job. And I have a handful of clients I produce for and I got room for more. So, if you’re doing a podcast and just want to do the interview and want somebody to handle the rest, I’m your guy for that. And I run my production company that I call Radio Guru and that’s on radioguru.co.uk.
Matt Bowles: All right, and then if people just want to come into your world, they want to listen to The Radio Vagabond podcast, they want to follow you on social media, they want to reach out to you, connect with you. How would you like people to come into your ecosystem?
Palle Bo: It’s basically The Radio Vagabond anywhere. And if you’re searching in a podcast app, remember to have The Radio Vagabond. Otherwise, you’ll get the Danish version of the podcast. If you’re Danish, do that, just Radio Vagabond, but The Radio Vagabond and that’s also one on all the different social media platforms.
Matt Bowles: All right, we are going to link all of that up in the show notes so folks can just go to one place at themaverickshow.com go to the show notes. For this episode we’ll have all the ways to find, follow and connect with Palle as well as direct links to the conferences he mentioned and everything else discussed on this episode. And wherever you’re listening to this podcast, you can just type in The Radio Vagabond and you can find Palle’s podcast highly recommended. Definitely tune in. It’s a really unique and interesting podcast that I have been listening to for many years.
Palle Bo: And if you do that right now, you will find the episode with Matt Bowles and Phil Marcus.
Matt Bowles: All right, Palle, thank you so much for coming on the show, my friend. It is always a pleasure to talk with you.
Palle Bo: Always a pleasure.
Matt Bowles: All right, good night, everybody.
