INTRO: This is part two of my interview with Rosie Bell. If you have not yet listened to part one, I highly recommend you go back and do that first. It was episode 263 of The Maverick Show. It provides some very important context for this episode. If you have already listened to part one, you know that we are right now about halfway through a six-pack of beer because Rosie drinks beer, not wine. And at The Maverick Show, we like to accommodate. We are in the Canary Islands. We are on the island of Tenerife, and you are about to hear the conclusion of my interview with Rosie Bell.

Matt Bowles: Well, you have not only traveled extensively and immersive, but you have been writing for the tippy top travel publications from Condé Nast, Lonely Planet, and the list goes on. And you wrote a book that I want to ask you about called The Art and Business of Travel Writing.

Pitch, pen and get paid. And I want to ask you about that for folks that are interested in traveling and interested in wondering about travel, writing as a way that they could potentially monetize and subsidize their travel and pursue it as a career. Can you share a little bit about what your book is about? And some tips for folks who might be interested in pursuing that.

Rosie Bell: Of course, I can share that. I wrote that book to answer all of the questions that I had for the first many years of my career. Travel writing and travel journalism are not very straightforward. It is very shrouded in mystery.

If you don’t have a colleague or a mentor or something like that, it’s very hard to know what to do, and where to go if you’re doing anything right. Because for instance, if you’re a freelancer, every magazine has different requirements. So, you know, you might’ve written for this magazine, and you think that’s the way it is, but no, this other magazine does things their own way.

Even just pitching. What is a pitch? How to write a pitch? Who to send a pitch to? How long should your pitch be? How often should you send a pitch? Should you follow up? Will they hate you if you follow up? All of these questions sound very straightforward. And we actually still are asking ourselves this, you know, with my colleagues, uh, one of my colleagues is coming on the cruise and we talk about this all the time. And we’ve been doing it for many years. So I think I wrote this book to help people answer the questions that I have when I was starting, because it is in many ways, one of the greatest jobs in the world, your life experiences are heavily subsidized, let’s face it, and then you get to write these stories that, you know, inspire people or, you know, educate people or entertain people, even just entertaining people.

I wrote the book for everybody who has those questions because it is something that a lot of people would like to do, but it’s something that many people won’t do because of the barriers to entry.

Matt Bowles: Well, we are going to link up the book in the show notes. So, there’ll be a direct link to that. So, folks can check it out. That is not the only book that you’ve written though, Rosie, you wrote another book that I also want to ask you about. It is called Escape to Self Realize, accept, and pursue what you desire. Can you talk about that book and what inspired you to write it and what the book is about?

Rosie Bell: Thank you for asking these questions. Thank you, Matt.

I wrote that book over the year that I first moved to Panama. I take that time off to just write it. And my inspiration for that came from those years of mild misery in London. Misery might be a strong word, but a feeling of being stuck, but not necessarily understanding why I felt stuck.

I knew I wanted something different, but I didn’t know what that thing was. And ultimately, I realized it through a longer roundabout process of going to Panama and everything. But not everyone’s solution is moving to Panama or traveling. That’s just the way that I got there. But ultimately the steps in the book, so, you know, realize, accept, and pursue what you want.

I think a lot of us are, as I mentioned in the book, we are. We’re financially sound, we’re comfortable, we’re educated, but we’re miserable and time poor. But why are we miserable? And I think, well, I think I’ve written this in the book is because we actually never really ask ourselves what we want. So, the first step is realizing what you want.

So I go through exercises, questions, self-reflection, and things that you can do to realize those things. When you realize those things, you may actually come up with some things that might bubble up to the surface that you’re not necessarily comfortable with. And then, so you kind of have to accept those things.

There’s a bit of a mourning process with, you know, maybe you thought that you wanted to be a doctor. Maybe you’re from a line of four doctors and you realize you can’t stand the sight of blood and you want to do this other very radical thing that maybe your family or community don’t want you to do. So, you kind of have to accept that before you can move on to the next step, which is acting on it, pursuing it.

Now that you’ve realized, okay, my life ingredients are this, and this, how can I actually. Bring that to fruition. So, I didn’t realize the reason why I wasn’t happy in London was because something that is so important to me is feeling agency over my life, feeling freedom. And I didn’t have that. I didn’t have freedom over where I lived, what I did.

And that is what it is for me. Of course, it’s not freedom for everybody, but ultimately escape to self is the process of coming to the process of discovering what your most delicious iteration of your life is.

Matt Bowles: I love that. And I think that you can continue to iterate, evolve and design your lifestyle in new and different ways as you go along.

And I know that you have continually done that. I want to ask you a little bit about your lifestyle design. First of all, I have to start off with this because I know you are a recent convert to Team Carry-on.

Rosie Bell: Hahaha. I was wondering if I was coming there. Yes.

Matt Bowles: This is something that I have been doing for many years now, which is traveling the world full-time with carry-on luggage only. Since you have been doing this for less time than I have, you are a more recent convert to carry-on luggage. I am curious about your reflections on traveling with a carry-on only. And the merits you have found of doing that versus checking luggage.

Rosie Bell: The merits are many. Obviously, you know, not waiting for the bag is just a very basic one at the beginning.

It’s the liberation. It’s the freedom. As I just mentioned, my number one driving force is freedom. And what pushed me there is I realized that I said no to an invitation to travel somewhere because I felt that I had too much luggage. And If I felt I’ve come to the point where my luggage is weighing me down and limiting my freedom.

And so, it’s very, very recent. It’s a new relationship. It’s a new type of freedom that just started last year. So, I went to spend the summer in Barcelona just with the carry-on. And I was fine. And that actually showed me that I didn’t need as much stuff as I thought I did. So now I have a carry-on and I’m going to be in Latin America, and I have, I bought a new super cute pink carry-on and I have that in a backpack, and I still managed to bring very important things.

I have some board games. I have icebreaker games. I have trivia games. I have all of my emergency stuff that I always carry, I have my tea that I carry everywhere because I can’t live without my tea. It’s the most perishing thing that I have. Yeah, so I have a new convert and I have to say that my life has changed a little bit. Just the freedom.

Matt Bowles: I love that also that you shared all of those other things that you bring in your carry on because I as well bring an espresso maker and I bring a wine aerator and I travel with a three-piece suit, and I bring all of these things that people are like, you can bring all that in your carry on.

I’m like, I travel with a professional podcasting studio, which you are currently experiencing right now, and so on and so forth. And I do it all without checking luggage. And so, you know, you don’t need a professional podcasting studio, but you’ve got these board games and you’ve got this other stuff that you put it, you know, so like, there is so much that you can do as long as you are strategic about how you pack

Rosie Bell: The three-piece suit. I want to know about that.

Matt Bowles: I’m going to rock it on the cruise for our formal dinner night, so you’re about to see it.

Rosie Bell: Oh my gosh. Oh, wow. I did. I mean, I have a dress, but wow. People are coming in three-piece suits.

Matt Bowles: I don’t know about people. I just know about how I roll and what I like to rock when I am in environments where.

Rosie Bell: Wow. Oh, my gosh. I’m going to have to step up my game now. But that is very impressive that you can bring all of that. And, you know, all of this gear as well in your carry-on.

Matt Bowles: Yep. I do free training on it actually, which I’ll link up in the show notes. If anybody’s interested in terms of a full luggage audit of exactly what I pack.

And then also how to think about for you personally, because I don’t assume that people have the same fashion or style that I do, but how to think about for you personally, what’s important. And then I had to distill that down and pack with carry-on luggage. And I’ve interviewed a lot of podcast guests. I mean, longtime listeners of the show know that there have been a lot of Maverick show guests, men and women that travel carry on only.

And so, it’s very doable. You just have to spend a little bit of time thinking about things for you. What are the priorities and how to do it? But it’s definitely possible.

Rosie Bell: Do you have an Excel sheet or some sort of system? What helps to keep track of everything that you have?

Matt Bowles: I don’t make as many lists. As you do, I just kind of have my stuff in the suitcase, and then when I need to replace something I’m like, Oh, I need to replace this, you know, whatever it is.

Rosie Bell: But how do you know you need to replace it if it’s not like on the Excel worksheet?

Matt Bowles: Because it’s in my suitcase and all of the material possessions that I own are in my suitcase.

Rosie Bell: Oh.

Matt Bowles: Because I travel full time with carry-on luggage with no base to store any other stuff.

Rosie Bell: Oh

Matt Bowles: Got it?

Rosie Bell: That’s the next level.

Matt Bowles: I’m trying to tell you.

Rosie Bell: That’s next level.

Matt Bowles: Isn’t it’s what we’re talking about?

Rosie Bell: Oh, okay. Well, I’m cheating because I have things at my sister’s house in London.

Matt Bowles: Yep.

Rosie Bell: Okay. I see. Oh, la la.

Matt Bowles: Si.

Rosie Bell: Okay. I get it now. Oh wow. That makes the three-piece suit even more impressive.

Matt Bowles: There you go. Now you see, because I have no other place to store a three-piece suit and then like go back and get it and take it. Because I don’t have a base.

Rosie Bell: Interesting. Wow. Well, my secret is I have an app. I have a clothing app, so I know exactly what I own, and I can look at it at any given time. Like, oh, I want to wear that and I’ll mix and match. And it also helps me from like, it prevents me from shopping and buying things I don’t need because I can see everything that I have.

Matt Bowles: Yep. Exactly. I just opened up my suitcase to see everything that I had. So that’s probably why I don’t need the app. Wow. I want to ask you a little bit more about how you design your lifestyle. And it may have evolved over the years, but at this point in your life, how do you decide where to go? How long to stay? How much time to spend there? How do you design your lifestyle right now?

Rosie Bell: As I mentioned before, one of my most important things is the weather. So ideally, I avoid winter at all costs. The only time I’m doing winter is, you know, if something family related, or, you know, I go to see my sister whose son is born at the end of November, but I’m avoiding the cold, like the plague. So, I winter in Latin America, and I spend the summers in Europe. That is my current setup now.

And so, the weather is a big deciding factor. And then, I also look at, as I mentioned before, where I feel secure and safe. Community is also important. I do like, you know, a place where I feel comfortable. I can go out and meet people. And because I, you know, I do speak Spanish, so I feel comfortable being in Latin America when I’m in somewhere that I, you know, the language is completely foreign to me. I must admit that I don’t necessarily feel at home as quickly. I do love languages and I will pick things up eventually, but it’s just sort of like an easier entry point when you go somewhere that you have a grasp of the language.

Or an interest in the language. So, you know, I, I don’t speak Portuguese, but I love listening to the music. So, if I meet a Brazilian, I can still connect with them based on, you know, loving Burguesinha by Seu Jorge. We can have that, that can bond us. So, I look at the weather, I look at security, I look at community and just like accessibility, you know, if I want to go around, can I get a taxi?

Do you know, can you walk at night? Can you walk around? I love walking around for hours. That is my preferred way to get to know a city. And if I feel safe enough that I can do that, perfect magic.

Matt Bowles: One of the questions that I get a lot about the digital nomad lifestyle is how dating, relationships, and finding love work in this lifestyle.

You’ve been a digital nomad for seven years now. What reflections or tips do you have for, how that has worked for you?

Rosie Bell: Dating as a nomad is not straightforward, but no dating is straightforward. Dating is not straightforward, even if you both live in the same place and have lived in the same place since you were five years old. I think I actually have more of a positive mindset than most people do, because people say, oh, you can’t meet somebody because you’re always moving.

But actually, I think because we have the capabilities that we have, we can go anywhere. We will go anywhere if we really want to.

Matt Bowles: Exactly.

Rosie Bell: You’re not limited by, oh, your job is here, or we have to be here at this time. The only thing that I think limits us movement-wise is like legalities, like legal stuff where, you know, your visa is running out or you can only stay here for 90 days. I think that’s the main thing that thwarts most of our travel plans.

I actually think that it empowers you if you go where you feel most alive, I think you have a better chance of finding somebody because you’ll also be your best self. You’ll be happy and you’ll attract the people that want to be around you to like butterflies around you. I have a very positive mindset about dating as a nomad, actually, because, let’s face it, if you don’t like something, you can just leave. If you don’t like this place, or if the dating game isn’t working for you, you can go check it out somewhere else. That is something that we can do. And of course we can’t not mention that.

There is a level of flippancy as well, you know, people are kind of leaving and so there is a criticism that nomads are commitment-phobic. You know, we don’t commit to locations. I would commit to a person. And I think this is the maybe third or fourth time I’m comparing love with travel because I think they’re, they’re very similar.

It’s just, it’s how you feel. If you feel something is worth fighting for, you will do it. If you fall in love with a place, you will stay there and you will go back there and you will visit that city time and time again. And it’s the same with a person.

Matt Bowles: Well, I know that you actually mentor people who are interested in becoming digital nomads who might be in a regular nine-to-five career and are interested in transitioning into a remote location independent career. So that they can have the freedom to travel the world or do whatever they like. Can you share a little bit about your Discovery Sessions, and how people can work with you in that capacity and what that’s like?

Rosie Bell: So, Discovery Sessions is my location independence education platform. So, I have articles on there and courses and more online courses coming. But most importantly, people book me for one-to-one mentoring.

So, calls, they have questions. Initially, people asked a lot about travel writing, but now it’s more sort of the most important question, the biggest question is how do I begin? How can I become a digital nomad? And something I found is that they already have the tools, but they don’t know what a digital nomad is.

I think they have these ideas that nobody is somebody who works does coding or as a programmer or has this specific, you know, list of five jobs. And if I don’t have that job, how can I do it? And I basically helped them dispel those myths because they’re myths. Some nomads do all sorts of jobs.

I’ve met people who are, you know, I’ve met, uh, dating coaches for poker players. I’ve met, you know, content marketers, everything. There are all sorts of variety of coaches, and ballerinas. I’ve met everybody.

Matt Bowles: You’ve met me, and I own a real estate brokerage.

Rosie Bell: Exactly.

Matt Bowles: Not a traditional virtual category.

Rosie Bell: Definitely not. No, Matt. So, you know, there’s, there’s everything out there and it’s, I think expanding your understanding of what a nomad is. And making it something that’s less scary and more accessible for them.

Matt Bowles: When you think back about all of the travel experiences you’ve had up to this point in your life, how do you think all of that travel has impacted you as a person?

Rosie Bell: Honestly?

Matt Bowles: Be honest.

Rosie Bell: Honestly, I think that traveling has, feels strangely like tooting my own horn. But I think it’s made me very open-minded and very malleable because you kind of have to be, you’re going to a place where maybe you don’t know the language. You don’t know anybody, you have, you’re putting yourself, you’re getting out of your comfort zone all the time.

You have to inherently be very adaptable unless of course, you’re going to places that are very similar to your hometown, which you know, nothing necessarily really wrong with that either. But the more you travel, the more out there you go, the more experiences you have with different people. It makes you very open-minded and it just gives you friends everywhere.

You have the fastest shortcut ever. Oh yeah, I was in your city. Oh yeah, you know, that was my favorite city. Oh, I ate this there. And then you suddenly have that. It just builds bridges between people, and you have a friend anywhere in the world that you can go visit or they can come visit you when they’re in town, and like life is just one big playground, you know, not to sound so kumbaya or anything, but I think to answer your question, it’s maybe very open minded and adaptable.

Matt Bowles: And why do you continue to travel? Why are you so passionate and inspired to keep traveling? What does travel mean to you today?

Rosie Bell: Travel is freedom. As I said, travel is freedom. It’s expansion. It’s an education. And I think I’m a person who will never really thoroughly be satisfied just staying completely stagnant, whether that’s from a knowledge point of view, I need to evolve. I love having new experiences and I know that there isn’t a, you know, a focus on new. And that’s not necessarily the case because I actually travel a lot to places that I’ve been to before. I love returning to those old loves, but travel is something that is so enriching to the point where it’s become thoroughly vital in my life, and I don’t know that I could live without it.

I don’t need to travel all the time. I don’t need to travel every fortnight, but it is something that even if I physically cannot move, you know, as many of us couldn’t during the pandemic, I will still need to have that cultural window somehow, whether that’s, I tried to kind of travel to a different place by what I was watching.

I watched a Brazilian show this week, then I watched a Korean show, and I was still always love to have those things in my life. I love going to supermarkets. And just looking at the different foods and where they’re from. And like, you have this from this country and that from that country. And, you know, it’s the end of the year now.

And the Spotify-wrapped list has come up. And I love the fact that my list has like 10 different languages in it. And I don’t know how many countries all the songs are from. There is no rhyme or reason. There’s no sense. So, travel is essential. It’s like a life force for me because I just love that multiculturalness.

I love that multiculturalness, which is why I love Bonaire. I loved Bonaire because everybody lived and breathed that. And I think actually growing up, I sort of had this, people didn’t really understand, you know, you just switch languages or this focus or need to meet people from everywhere, but I’m very sort of like United Nations about it. Like, I, everyone’s welcome. I love that. Come in my kitchen and I will always need that. It’s just like breathing now.

Matt Bowles: Rosie, that is an amazing answer. And I actually think that’s a great place to end the main portion of this interview. And at this point, are you ready to move in to the lightning?

Rosie Bell: Yes, I am ready, Matt. I’m ready.

Matt Bowles: Let’s do it. All right. Because you are a Nigerian, you get a special lightning round question that we’re going to kick this off with. Which country has better Jollof, Nigeria or Ghana?

Rosie Bell: Oh Matt. Well, you know, I know that you will have some listeners from Ghana, but all I have to say is that the jollof from Nigeria doesn’t lie. Like it’s just, you know, we know, I don’t know why this competition still even exists. As we all know, like there are some things that we do better and there are some things that they do better, and everyone should just have what they have. You know, like there’s some things like they have December, they have the whole month of December, just give us the jollof rice because it’s ours.

Matt Bowles: For people listening who do not know what Jollof Rice is let alone the Jollof Wars. Can you provide some context and explain?

Rosie Bell: Jollof Rice is heaven on a plate. It is like a very bright orange color, instantly recognizable, aromatic, tasty, sometimes spicy that will blow your head off. Some people call it party rice because you would have it at a wedding or, you know, any sort of celebration. And there is a bit of a rivalry, which, you know.

Matt Bowles: A bit

Rosie Bell: There’s a little bit of a rivalry between Nigeria and Ghana, although its origins come from Senegal. I think that’s been proven now, but they’ve not really in the running in the competition.

Matt Bowles: They just let the Nigerians and the Ghanaians primarily do good at it.

Rosie Bell: And then just, you know, sit there knowing that they started it. But I have to say that I think I wouldn’t even really be able to explain what the difference is. Obviously, I’ve had both. But friends who are not Nigerian or Ghanaian, who I’ve introduced Nigerian Jollof rice to when they’ve had Ghanian Jollof rice, they were like, oh, was that Jollof rice? So that’s all I’ll say about that.

Matt Bowles: Hahaha. All right, Rosie, what is one book that maybe has impacted you significantly over the years? You’d most recommend people should read.

Rosie Bell: It’s a book that I’ve read many years ago, but it’s really stayed with me. It’s a book called Seven Sins for a Life Worth Living by Roger Housden. And I read that when I was in Panama, and I needed that because the book taught me one of the lessons was; how to do nothing. I didn’t know how to do nothing. I don’t know, you know, people from cities, if you’ve lived in cities before, were just chronically busy.

I didn’t know how to be in the moment and just do nothing. And it was like these very seemingly straightforward lessons about life. But I think up until that point, when I read that book, which was in 2015, and I’m talking about it now still. Because it impacted me that much, is because those were those foundational levels where I realized, huh, you know. Just because you’re educated, you’re comfortable, you have a job, and you have friends. It doesn’t mean that your life is this like one big party and it’s a bed of roses. Like it doesn’t mean any of that stuff. Like it doesn’t necessarily mean that you know how to live. Like I didn’t know how to do nothing. I didn’t know what it was like to be by myself, to be alone.

I never spent time alone ever. And it was, uh, hey, stop. Pause. There’s another way. And I really love that book and I can’t recommend it enough.

Matt Bowles: If you could have dinner with any one person who’s currently alive today that you’ve never met, just you and that person for an evening of dinner and conversation, who would you choose?

Rosie Bell: I have mentioned him already today. It’s a man who is also a third-culture kid. It is Barack Obama. I would love to have dinner with him. And you know why? Because he is effortlessly charming. I think he’s a great study subject for just the art of charm. You know, all these different definitions of what charming is, you know, they say, it’s somebody that gets an answer without asking a question or people just want to do things for you or be in your aura.

I want to know what that is. I’m going to distill it. I want to ask him what he thinks makes him charming. I think charm is so fascinating because you just have it, or you don’t. This is not something you can buy. And I just, I think he’s just so effortlessly charming and he manages to cross borders and interest levels.

And he got, you know, young people interested in politics and, but then, you know, he was a serious politician but manages to be down with the kids and releases his favorite songs every summer. And people listen to that. And then do Netflix documentaries, And he can kind of, you know, cross between all these paths, but still be cool and still be respected and still be a world leader and just like, still be likable.

And there are all of these things that I very much admire. And I would just like to get a lesson in charm from him.

Matt Bowles: All right, Rosie, if you could go back in time knowing everything that you know now. And give one piece of advice to your 18-year-old self. What would you say to 18-year-old Rosie?

Rosie Bell: Stop overthinking about everything. Be in the moment, relax. Things will happen that you won’t like, but it’ll all be fine. Stop overthinking.

Matt Bowles: All right. Of all the places that you have traveled to, what are three of your favorite destinations you would most recommend people spend time in?

Rosie Bell: Ooh, okay. Well, I guess since we’ve been talking a lot about digital nomads today, I would say that actually, a really great digital nomad destination would be Mexico.

Mexico is a wonderful place. I would say for first-time nomads, especially because there are these towns where, you know, if community is what you’re looking for, you can definitely find that there. It is. The weather is great. That’s a personal favorite for me. Great food as well. But there’s that community there and there’s infrastructure.

So, I would say Mexico, definitely. I am biased. So, I would say Panama City also, because you have that safety. And Panama City is a place people say when they visit it, they don’t love it because they’re, you know, there’s not an endless list of tourist things to tick off your box that there is in Rio. In Rio, even 10 days isn’t enough to do, you know, Sugarloaf Mountain and Ipanema and Copacabana and waterfalls, Cachoeiras do Horto.

You don’t have enough time to do everything. People say that Panama City, you love it more when you live there than when you visit. And if you want a place that’s just sort of stable, but beautiful, and you can have a very comfortable, idyllic life with access to the most beautiful island you’ve ever seen in three hours, Panama City.

And then I would actually also say that because, you know, if you want to be a nomad, everyone talks about Bali, and I think that Bali is just something that you should do and get out of your system. See it for yourself because it’s kind of like, you know, one of those places that you know, is a nomad Mecca of sorts. Just go out and check it out for yourself. You may love it. You may not love it, but just see what it’s all about.

Matt Bowles: All right. What are your top three bucket list destinations, places you have not yet been? Highest on your list you would most love to see.

Rosie Bell: Okay, Matt, you’d be surprised, but I’ve never been to Rome. I think I’m waiting for like the perfect time to go to Rome. I have the, you know, fantasy, Roman holiday, Vespa driving around thing. So, I haven’t been to Rome, and I’d like, I mean, I can go to Rome whenever I want to, but I’m just sort of like waiting for that, like the right time.

And then I really want to go to Fiji. I want to meet, like, I want to say “Bula” to a Fijian and I want to just, it’s a paradise in my mind.

Oh, the third one? Oh, Japan. I haven’t been to Japan yet. I want to eat everything. I want to eat all of, I want sashimi for breakfast, lunch and dinner and dessert. That’s what I want.

Matt Bowles: Amazing. All right, Rosie, we’ve now come to the two most important questions of this interview.

Rosie Bell: Okay, hahaha.

Matt Bowles: The first one is that I am going to ask you to put my audience onto some Afro beats, and I’m going to ask you to name your top five favorite Afrobeat artists. But before you do that, can you give a little context for folks who are not familiar with Afrobeat’s? Share a little bit about Afrobeat, about the genre, and then also about what you love about it.

Rosie Bell: Well, Afrobeat’s, maybe some of you have heard of Fela Kuti. He is a pioneering Nigerian singer, seventies and eighties, and he was very politically inclined. He spoke out against politicians. He had these epic, you know, up to 17-minute songs that are just epic and just move your body. And he is, I guess, the godfather or where this began, but Afro beats now with an S at the end is a new iteration, but inspired by what he began.

There are these young new artists who have come in. Um, and it’s not just Nigerians making Afrobeat music now. It’s, you know, also, you know, people from Ghana and all over us, West Africa. But the thing that I love about Afrobeats is it’s impossible not to move. It is impossible not to move your body. You don’t need to know how to dance.

You don’t need to know how to dance. You just need to have feelings and just hear and let yourself go. Like, just let yourself go. One of my most favorite assignments that I’ve done, like in my travel writing career was investigating the Buenos Aires Afrobeats scene. This was very surprising to me because they have like the biggest Afrobeats events in Latin America.

That was like the hub. I interviewed the founder of the, one of the main festivals. They had Fela Kuti’s son come round for one of the events as well. It’s impossible not to move your body with Afrobeats music. So, if you have not heard it before, I suspect that you might have, but maybe not know what the genre is.

I would say that one artist you should definitely listen to is, well, I’m going to give you, my list.

Matt Bowles: Yes. Go right ahead. Top five. Go right ahead.

Rosie Bell: Okay. Would you like them in order?

Matt Bowles: Wow. I mean, it’s not required that they’d be in order, but I will allow you to share your top five in order if you would like to do that. Go ahead.

Rosie Bell: Okay. And ascending or descending.

Matt Bowles: Oh, wow. Let’s go from number five and then we’ll end with number one with the crescendo. How about that?

Rosie Bell: Okay. All right. That might surprise you. Okay. So, number five, I have to give it to Burna Boy. He is just killing it. He’s very influenced seemingly by like early nineties, R&B, and maybe even like reggae as well as dance hall. So, he brings that into his Nigerian music as well. He’s done a lot of great covers and crossover feature songs with like British artists and everybody. Burna boy, he will get you moving. If you want to dance, put this on and you’ll burn 700 calories in three minutes. It’s just fabulous. So, Burna Boy would be my number five.

And then number four, I put Davido actually. So, he’s also very popular and he has so many great songs. I couldn’t really choose one of which was my favorite, but he has got one right now, which is very hot in the charts and on social media called Unavailable. Also, lots of remixes have been done with that one and it will just get you moving. He’ll get you moving. He gets really passionate when he sings.

Third Wizkid, I would say he’s my number three. He just has so many songs and my family, we liked him before he blew up sort of thing. Like we just absolutely loved him. He’ll also get you moving. He’s had like songs with Drake as well, which was like, kind of crazy. That was, I guess, when Afrobeats was getting that kind of attention that Drake got on a song with Wizkid, but his discography is much bigger than that as well. And he’s been going for years. He’s got one of his early, really good songs called Tease Me. If you want to look something up from his early years, Tease Me.

Okay, and then the second, he’s not as popular, but I love Wande Coal. He’s somebody to check out as well. He also has some great jams. Something that is interesting about him is I don’t actually know what he looks like at all, because he always has sunglasses on.

He’s just like that cool guy, always having sunglasses on. I would not be able to like recognize him on the street at all. And yeah, so Wande Coal, has a great song called Iskaba. If you want to look at Iskaba, yeah, well, I’m not going to sing. Don’t worry. Don’t be scared, Matt. Hahaha

My number one is Show Dem Camp. So not many people know, will know this name either, but they’ve got some great songs. It’s a little bit more laid back. You can still dance, but it’s more like you can move your waist. You’re not going to break into a sweat, but they’ve got some great songs as well that I love. They sing a lot about palm wine. Do you know what palm wine is?

Matt Bowles: Yes. I have had palm wine.

Rosie Bell: Oh, what do you think? Do you like palm wine?

Matt Bowles: It is a cultural experience that people should have. I don’t know that I would drink a lot of it on my own volition, but I was appreciative of the experience that I had and the context that I had it.

Rosie Bell: Okay. Well, you know, you tried it.

Matt Bowles: I tried it. Yeah.

Rosie Bell: Yeah. So, he’s facing a lot about Pam, and they have a song called Malibu and Pam wine, which I don’t actually think would be a good mix, but on the song, the song is a jam. So absolutely. So, check out Show Dem Camp as well. So, the top five were Show Dem Camp, Wande Coal, Wizkid, Davido and Burnaboy.

And the last three will be, you know, more household names, but the other two Show Dem Camp and Wande Coal, maybe not so much.

Matt Bowles: All right, we have come to our final question where I am going to ask you to name your top five hip hop emcees. As you know, I was a hip-hop DJ during the 90s, so this is always a super fun question for me.

And before you name your five, can you share a little bit about what hip-hop has meant to you in your life and what you love about it.

Rosie Bell: So, my relationship with hip-hop stems from having two older brothers who were very into hip-hop and used to rap themselves. So, I was listening to songs that I had no business listening to when I was like five years old, you know, like the death row stuff. And you know, it’s just words that I didn’t even know what those words meant. I have been listening to that from my early years.

Matt Bowles: My sister has a similar experience growing up with me in the house. So, I was helping her to buy her first back then, like cassette tape CDs kind of thing, and she was buying the ones with the explicit lyrics on them at age eight because she knew what it was because I was kind of in an older brother sort of way helping her get into good music if you will. So, if she could, she would tell some similar stories.

Rosie Bell: Parental getting her on the parental advisory stuff early. How much younger than you is she?

Matt Bowles: Five years.

Rosie Bell: Okay. Yeah.

Matt Bowles: So, when she was eight, you know, I was probably 13, 14, kind of going into that high school, you know, when I was getting into all of this hip hop. And then, of course, I was, you know, making sure that she knew what good music was.

Rosie Bell: As a good, you know, a good older brother should.

Matt Bowles: Did my duty. Yeah, exactly.

Rosie Bell: Yeah, I see. Love that.

Matt Bowles: Alright, Rosie, who are your top five?

Rosie Bell: For this one, I think I’m going to go from number one down because I actually have two extras that I would like, I like to cheat a little bit and mention more than five if I may.

Matt Bowles: Got it. So, you’re going to mention your top seven.

Rosie Bell: Yes.

Matt Bowles: Okay. I see.

Rosie Bell: Yes.

Matt Bowles: Got it. All right. So, we’re going to do your favorite number one first, and then we’re going to go down. I’m going to end with two honorable mentions. I understand. All right. The terms have been laid out.

Rosie Bell: Hahaha. Thank you.

Matt Bowles: I understand. All right.

Rosie Bell: Okay. So, Tupac. All eyes on me. He’s my number one. He’s still my number one till today. I just like to get so happy when I’m out in the wild and one of those songs from all eyes on me comes out again, if I may share a story. I was in Belize in April on a press trip and at the airport about to fly to this, you know, beautiful beach town. And the guy who checked me in to go on Tropic Air Belize’s airline, I see that he, his name, uh, yeah, it’s such an interesting story. Anyway, his name was Kendrick. And so, I said, oh, Kendrick, you know, do you like Kendrick Lamar? And he said, no, I don’t like Kendrick Lamar. Because I only listen to music by Tupac. And I was like today, like in 2023. And he said, yeah, I only exclusively listened to Tupac music. And then maybe he shouldn’t have, but in the airport right there, he lifts up his shirt and he have the thug life tattoo and everything, this Belizean man. So, we just break out into song and we’re like, give me some of that. And It’s just such an amazing experience. So yeah, I love Tupac and I was just smiling the rest of the day because it was so random also to meet somebody who exclusively listens to the music of a man who died many years ago. So, he’s number one.

And then number two, do you know Tha Dogg Pound?

Matt Bowles: Of course.

Rosie Bell: Okay. Oh yeah. That’s a silly question. Who am I dealing with?

Matt Bowles: Hahahaha

Rosie Bell: Sorry, that’s insulting to you.

Matt Bowles: Of course, I know Tha Dogg Pound. I was in college when the album Dogg Food was released, and my roommate was a huge West Coast hip-hop fan. I was more of an East Coast hip-hop fan. I mean, I have respect and love for the West Coast hip-hop, but he was a west coast hip-hop fanatic.

And so, the day that Dogg Food came out, he was on the phone with the record shop to see if it came in, if they have it, so we can go buy it on the day that it comes out. And somebody picked up the phone at the record shop and they went, hello. And he goes, yeah, do you guys have Dogg Food? And they’re like, no, I’m sorry, sir. You’ve reached our record shop.

Rosie Bell: Hahaha. Oh my gosh. That’s. Also, that story is so crazy talking about a record shop. Like a

Matt Bowles: A record shop is how you bought music in the 90s for all of the next generation that are listening to this exactly. So yes, are Tha Dogg Pound you’re

Rosie Bell: That’s my number two. Yes. All I can say is, let’s play house. Sorry. I love them. And again, I had no business seeing that song, you know, at the age I was like, I didn’t really know what playing was house was. And also, he says like, you know, you be the mommy and I’ll be the daddy that runs the house.

Yeah. So still love it. And then number three, Warren G, and it even rhymes. I love Warren G as I mentioned to you earlier, regulating Warren G and Dogg is one of my go-to karaoke songs. And I don’t actually do Warren G’s part. I do Nate Dogg’s part because his part is better in that song. Everyone knows it. There’s no denying it.

But yeah, I love Warren G. He’s just so quietly cool and humble and just amazing, but under the radar somehow, and no one gives him the like love he deserves. But that song will live forever. Yes. So, Warren G. And then. I’ve debated whether or not to put Snoop in, but I would say that he actually is because not only do I love his music, but he just cracks me up.

You know, his latest stunt about giving up smoking is just hilarious. I don’t know any listeners out there. He said that he was giving up smoking for the sake of his family. And then there was all this like, you know, uproar and outrage. And then it turned out that it was an ad that he’d been paid to like something, giving up smoking of like firewood or something like that.

But it was just like, you know, I’m never going to stop smoking. And it was, he’s just so funny. He can do everything, every genre. Um, and just so many classic songs. I love him, you know, from every decade, like every year of my life, there’s like a different snoop period. Like when I was around.

I don’t know, my early teen years, it was Snoop. There was that time, then he kind of graduated and then he did the sexual eruption. And then obviously when I was younger, that Tupac time and when my brothers were really into American music. That’s, I guess, yeah when I discovered like, yeah, anyway, probably also had no business listening to him then.

And then, so that was the main list, but I would also like to, the honorable one.

Matt Bowles: Wait, that was four.

Rosie Bell: Oh, yeah. That’s true. You’re right. I just wrote Warren G twice because I guess I love him so much. Yes. Okay. And then the only, I only have one honorable mention. Who is Wale.

Matt Bowles: Wait, who’s number five? Before you get to your honorable mention, wait a minute.

We have Tupac, Dogg Pound, Warren G and then we have Snoop. That’s four. So, who is five?

Rosie Bell: Outkast.

Matt Bowles: Outkast is five. Okay. So, your first four were all on the West coast. So, I sense a very strong geographical allegiance there. Outkast that you have from the ATL. Yes. So, diversifying it a little bit regional there.

Rosie Bell: A little bit.

Matt Bowles: Okay. got it.

Rosie Bell: I do love Outkast. Also, I never really understood them. I never, you know, they were a little bit out there. They weren’t like typical rappers. I never really understood them, but they just, they speak to everybody in a way. And they just have classic stuff. And even like till today, when I hear the teteren-teteren, it’s just, yeah, I love them.

Matt Bowles: Okay. And then your honorable mention.

Rosie Bell: Wale.

Matt Bowles: Okay.

Rosie Bell: Yes, I feel is somebody that doesn’t get enough love really. He, yeah, he’s got great songs. He’s cool. I think more people should check him out.

Matt Bowles: All right. We are going to link up in the show notes. All of these things that we have talked about. So, all of your Afrobeat artists, all of your hip hop artists, and everything else that we have discussed is going to be in one place at themaverickshow.com. I also want you to let folks know how they can find you, how they can follow you on social media, how they can come into your world, check out your amazing content, much of which is free. You have a really extensive blog posts and travel writing that’s available for folks to just go check out for free. And then you also have other opportunities for folks to work with you. So, can you share a little bit about how you want people to come into your world?

Rosie Bell: Yes, of course. So, Instagram, thebeachbell, I chose that name many years ago. You know, the beach was always calling me ring, ring the beach bell on Instagram.

And then for the Location Independence information and guidance, that will be discoverysessions.io. There you can read all the content as Matt gracefully said, and you can also work on a session with me to answer all your questions, talk about location independence, nomadism, journalism, whatever you want. You can spend some of my time there.

You can read some of my travel journalism articles at rosiebell.net to see my, I guess, collection of bylines and yeah, follow me. Feel free to reach out. I’m happy to hear from people. I do get people asking me questions all the time. I guess because what we do and how we live isn’t very typical. So, I am more than happy to hear from people who would like that guidance.

Matt Bowles: We are going to link all of that up in the show notes, as well as the direct links to check out Rosie’s books and everything else that she is up to. You can get all of that in one place. Just go to themaverickshow.com. Go to the show notes for this episode. There you will find direct links to everything we have discussed.

Rosie, this was amazing. I think you are amazing and thank you for coming on the show.

Rosie Bell: Thank you so much for having me. I’ve had so much fun. It’s just like just having a wonderful, very informal, really fun chat. So, thank you so much for having me on.

Matt Bowles: All right. Good night, everybody.

Rosie Bell: Good night.