INTRO: We’ve got a fun one for you today because the tables are turned, and I am the guest being interviewed by Chase Warrington of the About Abroad podcast. Now you’ll remember Chase because I interviewed him on The Maverick show back in episode #189. If you haven’t heard of that one, highly recommend checking it out. We’ll link it up in the show notes. And if you’re not yet familiar with the About Abroad podcast, I definitely want to encourage you to find that show and subscribe to it. Anywhere you’re listening to this podcast, you can just type in About Abroad and you can subscribe to his show. He interviews some incredible guests. He’s a super talented podcast host. This was a very fun interview for me to do with him. He pulled out a lot of really cool stories and we just had a blast. So, I think you’re going to enjoy it. And now here is Chase Warrington interviewing me on the About Abroad podcast.

Chase Warrington: My guest today is Matt Bowles. He is the co-founder of the Maverick Investor Group, the host of The Maverick Show podcast, which is one of the leading travel podcasts out there and a show that I’m a big fan of myself. And he is a full-time digital nomad that’s been traveling the world and living location independently. A true pioneer in that regard. A lot of fun catching up with him, getting to know more about his origin story, what motivated him to go location independent and some of his favorite places around the world and how he manages to make that happen. We spend a good bit of time talking about Remote Year, the program that gave him a chance to travel with a community of people and how he’s getting ready to return on another trip with them. We also spend some time in Africa and talk about some of his favorite places in various corners of the world. So, lots of fun, a lot packed into this one hour episode. I hope you enjoy, and you’ll help me in welcoming Matt to About Abroad.

Yeah. So, I’m currently in Germany. Where were we when I spoke on your pod? You were in Portugal, is that right?

Matt Bowles: I was in Portugal when you spoke on my podcast. I was there for about a month. I was there for my birthday, that’s right. Based in Lisbon. And then a whole crew of us went down to the Portuguese wine country and hung out there and rented a villa that had chickens. You could go get fresh eggs for breakfast from the chick and all of this remote Portuguese wine country type of stuff. And then we just went around in vineyards all day, every day. So, yeah, man, it was fun.

Chase Warrington: Yeah, you’re just constantly living the dream. It’s pretty fun to watch. Where are you now, though? You back in the U.S.?

Matt Bowles: I am doing a quick swing through the U.S., so I usually spend about one month of the year in the U.S. kind of hanging out with family and seeing some friends and all that kind of stuff. So, I was in Europe up until about two weeks ago, and now I’m doing a quick swing through the U.S. and then back out of the country, September 1st.

Chase Warrington: Did you go to the Bansko Nomad Fest, is that right?

Matt Bowles: I did, yeah. So, after you and I chatted in Portugal, I went over to Bansco for a month and spoke at the Nomad fest, which got 550 nomads from all over the world converged in this tiny little ski town which doesn’t even have an airport or anything. You have to fly into Sofia and then you take a car ride for two and a half hours to get out. And yet 550 people from all over the world came. So, it was wild. It was really fun.

Chase Warrington: Wow. Tell me about the Nomad Fest a little bit. I saw some pictures. Obviously wasn’t there. We would have been hanging out if that was the case. But how was it?

Matt Bowles: It was cool, man. It was a cool crowd. Matthias, who’s this German guy, has been based in Bonsko now for a number of years and he’s really been building out the nomad scene there. So, he’s built this Bansko co working space and from that has built out all these social activities and has really been kind of working on trying to attract nomads there. And one of the things he does every year is he does this Bansko Nomad Fest. And so, this was the largest one that he’s ever. He was able to break 500 people on this one. And so, it’s a series of talks that nomads give on different topics. And then there’s all of these different social events and different cool stuff you can do. Go to the hot springs and you go on hikes and bonfires and all of this wild stuff that he has set up.

So, it was fun, man. The fest itself, the official, I guess, programming went for about a week, but of course nomads stay for like a month. So, there was a whole bunch of people that just kicked it for a while and stuff. And I like to kind of slow travel around, so I stayed for about a month. So, it was fun, man.

Chase Warrington: It looks cool. I haven’t been there yet. It’s like one of those nomad villages that just keeps popping up that I feel like I got to go see at some point. And just like you said, like, the challenges is just like getting there. It’s not just like a quick, easy flight. And that’s a lame, terrible excuse. But I’m eager to go. But if I’m being real, that’s the friction that’s kept me from doing it. But I am considering maybe planning to spend a winter there or something and just go check it out.

Matt Bowles: It’s a cool ski town, man. I was there for about a week during the wintertime, so I got to get a scene of that. And it’s definitely much more bustling during the winter. The summer for sure is the off season, but that also means you can get incredible deals on accommodations and stuff like that. I mean, we’re talking like Thailand type prices, right? Wow. I mean, it’s crazy. Yeah.

Chase Warrington: That’s wild, man.

Matt Bowles: Yeah.

Chase Warrington: To find that. Someone once described it; I think it was here on the show as kind of like the Alps. You kind of feel like you’re in the Alps, but you’re just not on Alps prices, which is quite nice.

Matt Bowles: Yeah, it was cool, man. It’s a really cool little ski village town. And you get all of that vibe, you know, for a fraction of the price that you would have it, as you said, in most Western Europe, for sure.

Chase Warrington: Yeah. So, you mentioned you’re a slow nomad traveler. You’ve been doing that since way before it was cool, like 2013 or something.

Matt Bowles: 2013, I left Los Angeles. Yeah. So, I lived in LA full time up until then. And I had been working remotely. I had started my own business, and I had built it with a location, independent infrastructure, and so I could be working from anywhere. I was choosing to be in LA because, one, I love la, and number two, I was in a relationship in LA and my partner, and I were living together, and she was doing her Ph.D. at UCLA in Egyptian history. And one day she comes home and she’s like, yeah, so I got to go to Cairo for a year to do my dissertation research. And I’m like, cool. I’m location independent. I’ll go to Cairo for a year. Let’s do this. So, we pack up all our stuff, get rid of everything, leave la, go to Cairo for a year.

And at that point I was only expecting that it was going to be one year, but then we finished that year and then we were like, well, you got a year to write your dissertation. You don’t need to go back to LA to do that. You’ve got all your research with you. Let’s just pull out a world map, pick the top five destinations we most want to see and experience, and let’s just go rent an Airbnb for like two months in each one. So we were like Rio de Janeiro, Cape Town, South Africa, Barcelona, and we just went. And that ended up being a year and a half.

Chase Warrington: What? That’s the coolest intro to the nomad lifestyle that I think I’ve ever heard. Because most people are a little more calculated and like, okay, I’m going to transition into this lifestyle. And it’s like, well thought out. Either that or it’s like the total opposite. Like, I lost everything, and I just hit the road with a backpack, and I don’t know. That’s somewhere in between.

Matt Bowles: Yeah, I did have the location independent business infrastructure already set up and flowing. Right. So, I was able to just work from anywhere. Like, that was already established, so I didn’t have to figure out how am I going to build that? Because I had already built that and it was just about, okay, now we’re just going to relocate and go somewhere else. That was amazing. And then she and I ended up breaking up in about the summer of 2016. And then at that point I was like, man, what do I do now? Because one, it was a super long-term relationship. It’s like a seven-year relationship. And I was feeling super isolated because I just broken up out of this long term relationship. We literally broke up on the island of Cyprus.

Chase Warrington: What?

Matt Bowles: And I’m so. I’m sitting there in Nicosia, Cyprus. I don’t know another person on the island. I’m like, oh, man, I just got out of this relationship. What are my next steps? I need people, I need hugs, I need community. What do I do? So, I’m like, okay, first step is just taking a flight somewhere. So go to Skyscanner. What’s the cheapest flight out of Cyprus? Go to Athens for 50 bucks. I’m like, done. So, I go to Athens and then I get off the plane, I check into my Airbnb, and then I go to a coffee shop and I’m like, all right, I need to plan the rest of my life right now. And so, I had heard this was 2016. I had heard about this program called Remote Year.

And I was like, this is absolutely perfect for me right now because I need an immediate community, but I also want to keep traveling. So, this is perfect. Because what Remote Year the company does is they bring together location independent professionals who don’t know each other at the beginning. And then they facilitate a 12-month itinerary where you live in a different city each month for 12 months across four continents. Our trip was.

And then they take care of all your accommodations, your coworking space, access 24.7wi Fi. They have full-time staff locally on the ground in each place. And then you travel the world together as a community. Right. So, you’re like this roving community. So, you have that as your base and as your social anchor and community support and all that kind of stuff. And then I was like, this is absolutely perfect for me right now because I need community, and I want to keep traveling. So, I just jumped on Remote Year and did a year with them back in 2016.

Chase Warrington: So, you did one of the full year cohorts?

Matt Bowles: Yes, sir.

Chase Warrington: Wow. Where did you guys go? Was it around the world kind of thing? Remote Year have changed a little bit over the last years. They have shorter cohorts now and they have longer trips. And I think some are really focused on certain geographic regions. And so, were you on one of those, like worldwide trips?

Matt Bowles: We did. We did four continents. Wow. We started in Kuala Lumpur, and we did three months in Asia. At the time it was Kuala Lumpur. And then Phnom Penh, Cambodia, and then we did the Thai island of Koh Phang yang. And so, we just lived on the beach for five weeks in Copenhagen, which is all crazy. I mean, these are all like super different experiences. And you know how different a city like Phnom Penh is from an island in Thailand. So, we had all of these experiences in Asia.

Then we went to Europe, and we did Europe for three months and then we went to Mexico City and then we spent the last five months in South America, went through Colombia, Peru, Argentina, and did the whole thing, man. So, it was absolutely amazing. The people that did that program with me are family for life still some of my best friends to this day. It was incredible. And as you mentioned, Remote Year has evolved significantly since then. I actually did the seventh program ever. Wow.

Chase Warrington: It’s early. It was a very early stage.

Matt Bowles: We were very early. Their first program ever was still orbiting. Our program started. So, we were in the first year of remote operations. When our program started.

Chase Warrington: Was it bumpy at all? Was it like obviously a new thing?

Matt Bowles: Oh, yeah.

Chase Warrington: Growing pains.

Matt Bowles: Oh, yeah. But it was amazing because the primary value that you’re paying for there, or at least that I was paying for, was the community. And it’s like, what type of person is going to leave everything and everyone that they know and commit upfront to traveling the world for a year with a bunch of strangers that they’ve never met. I want to meet every single person that makes that decision, and I want to hear all of their stories because those are my people, man.

Chase Warrington: That’s why we got into the podcasting game. I’m sitting there like, oh, that sounds perfect. I want to talk to every single one of them and ask, what is your story and why the hell are you here? And there’s a lot to be learned in there.

Matt Bowles: Exactly, man. But yeah, so after you finish your Remote Year program, you become an alumni. And then they gave me, as an alumni, the ability to drop into other programs for a month at a discounted rate and join their program for a month. So, I actually did that in a number of different locations, including Valencia, Spain. You and I have talked about my time there.

Chase Warrington: Yeah.

Matt Bowles: That was actually me dropping into a Remote Year program that was going through Valencia for a month. So, I did that and I dropped in onto a program that was in Marrakesh and in Morocco and some other different locations. And it was very cool because you also have a connection with those people because they’re like, oh, you did Remote Year two, what was your experience like? And you have this shared experience, so you’re immediately welcome welcomed into the program. So, I did a number of those kind of alumni drop in months.

And then as you mentioned, they have also expanded their offerings and now they offer four-month programs. They offer one-month programs, even offer like retreats that are even shorter than that, I think. But I am actually going to do in a couple weeks my second official Remote Year program. And this time I’m doing a four-month program. And this is actually their first ever Africa itinerary. So, we’re going to do South Africa for a month, Tanzania for a month, Kenya for a month, and Senegal for a month.

Chase Warrington: Whoa. Will that be your first time in any of those countries? Because I think you’ve traveled extensively in Africa, if I’m not mistaken.

Matt Bowles: I have been to all of those countries before, but I love them, and I am excited to go back and spend more time there and do more things there because some of them I was only there for like Tanzania was only for a week. I just spent a couple days in Dar Salaam and then went out to the island of Zanzibar for like a week. And this time I’m excited to do a lot more stuff in that country. Nairobi. I’ve spent about a month In Kenya, Senegal. I’ve spent about a month in Dakar, which is unbelievable. Incredible city. And then Cape Town, I’ve spent about three months there. But that’s also an amazing city. So, I’m excited to go back.

Chase Warrington: Is there anywhere in particular, like. I don’t know, for me, when I’ve got these, like, long trips planned out, I’ve always kind of got that one place in my mind that I’m just really itching to go to. And sometimes it’s like in the middle of the itinerary and you just kind of can’t wait to get there. Is there any place like that for you?

Matt Bowles: Man, on this particular trip? I don’t know. I mean, Dakar in Senegal left an incredible impression on me, man. It was a really, really, really special place. So, I’m super excited to get back there. And then I’ve actually been to Ghana before as well, for about a month. And so, this year I’m going to go for the week surrounding New Year’s Eve, I’m going to go with a group of friends of mine to Accra in Ghana, and they have this Afrobeat festival called Afrochella. It’s like Coachella, but with Afrobeats. And they do it in Accra in the very end of December. And then we’re going to spend New Year’s Eve there, and we’re going to do kind of the whole thing. And Accra in Ghana is also one of my favorite cities in the world. I mean, absolutely spectacular. So, I’m really, really excited to get back there.

Chase Warrington: What’s cool about it? I know nothing.

Matt Bowles: So, a bunch of these cities in West Africa are right on the coast. I probably spent about five months on the continent in 2019. I spent a couple months in Cape Town, and then I went up to West Africa, which is my first time in West Africa. And I did a month in Nigeria, in Lagos. I did a month in Accra in Ghana. I did a month in Dakar in Senegal. And then I did a real quick swing through the Ivory Coast. One of the cool things is that these are all right on the coast, right? So, you have these major capital cities that are on the water, right?

So, you have these like unbelievable beach parties. I mean, Accra in Ghana, they have Sunday party on Labati beach, which gets 5,000 people on a regular Sunday. It’s not a festival; it’s not a special event. There’s just lined with DJs on the beach, 5,000 people coming out dancing the whole day under the stars. It’s Just incredible. The nightlife is completely next level, absolutely incredible. And the country is just, it’s infused with music just bumping through the streets. I mean, even like local street kiosks that are just selling beers and basic things, you can just go and sit down at a pull-out table that’s kind of like right in front of their little street kiosk they’ve got speakers that are bumping this incredible music. I mean, you’re just in this amazing environment, man. It just infused my spirit with wonderfulness. Man, I’m super excited to go back.

Chase Warrington: Oh man. It’s such a weird thing to say, Africa, because it’s such a massive piece of land and involves so many countries and cultures and a lot of diversity there that I think might get overlooked sometimes, but it feels like it’s just generally speaking an area. For instance, I struggle to get people to come on the show that can talk extensively about traveling in Africa or moving to Africa. It’s very easy to find people who have said like, oh yeah, I went and spent a year in Brazil, or I spent a year in France or even Bali or something like that.

But generally speaking, I’ve struggled to get people on here that have a lot of knowledge about Africa. But I do get this sense that this is changing a little bit. I’m seeing more digital nomads talking about spending time there. Even some like expat families that are going to different parts of Africa. So, I’m curious, you’ve spent a lot of time there. I mean, do you see that shift happening? I guess. If not, why or what are people missing?

Matt Bowles: Yeah, I mean, first of all, to your point, Africa is massive. It’s about 56 countries which are all distinct and different and have different languages and histories and cultures and all that stuff. And a lot of the different regions of Africa are very different from each other. North Africa, which is primarily Arabic speaking, Egypt and Morocco and Algeria and Tunisia and stuff like that. Obviously very different from West Africa, East Africa, Central Africa, South Africa.

So, all of these regions are very different. Different people, different languages, all that kind of stuff. I mean, it’s like traveling through any other continent, right? Traveling through Asia. It’s a lot of very different countries and cultures and all that kind of stuff. I think when you talk about digital nomads in Africa, the first thing that’s important to talk about is the fact that there are digital nomads that are from Africa. So, one of my very good friends who I traveled with on that entire West Africa trip that I just told you about the Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, Ivory coast trip. She’s born and raised in Kenya.

Chase Warrington: Wow.

Matt Bowles: And then she went to college in Uganda. And she is a full time itinerant digital nomad who just travels the world and works remotely and all of that. And so, I’ve interviewed her on my podcast. She’s a really good friend of mine. So, there’s plenty of digital nomads that are from Africa, born and raised in Africa, that are digital nomads and that are traveling around Africa in addition to obviously the traveling outside of Africa too. But that’s, I think one important thing when we talk about digital nomads is that digital nomads are from everywhere and they travel everywhere, right?

Chase Warrington: Yeah.

Matt Bowles: So, I think as you’re traveling around Africa, you’ll meet tons of amazing people, including digital nomads that are there, that are traveling there, that are from maybe another country in Africa or this or that Incredible entrepreneur scene in a lot of these cities. Nairobi, Kenya, remarkable entrepreneur hub. Incredible co-working spaces, rooftop bars, espresso. It’s incredible.

Chase Warrington: Wow, that’s super cool. It’s a good reminder, like there’s a tourist path for nomads I think, that you could easily follow. And to get off that path from time to time is a nice reminder. And especially after you’ve been doing this for a long time, you’re always craving something a little different. You want change. You adopted this lifestyle so that you weren’t sitting sedentary and experiencing the same thing every day. And so, changing it up is necessary. And I think it’s a good reminder. You can break free of maybe the more traditional nomad hubs, if we’re going to call it that, and break out into some other places.

Matt Bowles: For sure, sure.

Chase Warrington: Yeah. It’s funny, man. Talking about Remote Year brings back some good memories. Living in Valencia especially might have been around that same time. I’m trying to think. There was tons of Remote Year groups coming through there. I constantly was meeting up with them, hanging out groups, just passing through. And because I was living there, it was a cool dynamic. I was kind of like envious of them because I’m like, man, you guys are traveling all over the world and onto another cool place next week or next month.

And. And at the same time, there was sort of some like mutual envy, I think, because they were like, man, you’re living in this awesome city. Like, I didn’t even know about Valencia. You’re living here full time now. That was always like a good time. We’d meet up for drinks or tapas or whatever. And yeah, man, always enjoyed that. I’m, I’m a big fan of the Remote Year concept and would love to join one of those cohorts one time. I think I’d probably do one like you’re doing, like four months or something would be really cool.

Matt Bowles: It is cool, man. And for some people it’s been something where it’s like, oh, that was my entree into nomading because they make it very easy, right? I mean, it’s like turnkey digital nomading, right? Here’s your community, here’s your accommodation, they take care of your flights, they take care of your co-working space. All the admin stuff is done. Here’s the stuff to do on the ground, here’s the cool things. And then there’s just a built-in community. So, you’re never lonely.

I mean, it’s like all of the nomad challenges are taken care of in one turnkey package. And so, for a lot of people, that’s their entree into the lifestyle and then they kind of keep going. It was amazing for me, because of the community aspect that was the main value for me is like, wow, like you’re going to bring together all of these incredibly fascinating, remarkably interesting people and I just get to go travel the world and have adventures with them for the year.

I mean, that’s just insane because these are the type of people where whatever city you’re in, you can just be like, who wants to go on a side trip? You know, like we were in Lima, Peru, and that was our base for the month. And I was like, who wants to go to Bolivia for eight nights and go mountain bike the world’s most dangerous road outside of La Paz and then go down to the salt flats and go through the salt flats for like four nights and be off grid and do that whole thing? And eight people were like, I do. And they just, you go with eight people. It’s like that kind of a thing for the whole year.

Chase Warrington: That sounds so idyllic when we’re talking about it. It’s like, who doesn’t want to do that? Is there any major flaw in the system or something? Is it incredibly expensive and therefore just not accessible to a lot of people or does it just seems so perfect? Is there a drawback? Is there any downside?

Matt Bowles: I mean, it’s for remote professionals. Right. It’s not for backpackers.

Chase Warrington: Yeah. You’re working.

Matt Bowles: Yeah. You’re working professionally, so you have to have enough money to pay for it and the prices are changing.

Chase Warrington: Yeah.

Matt Bowles: So, whenever People listen to this, they can just go to the website and see what it is. But your price covers accommodations, your co working space, all your international airfare to every single destination, transport on the ground, all kinds of stuff. Then you’ve got full-time staff there. So, you have to remember too though, it’s basically just your base. I mean you can of course go and do whatever you want.

You’re not like obligated to do this or that group activity or whatever. You want to opt out for a month, or you want to just take a side trip by yourself or go visit people. I left for most of the month of December just to go spend Christmas with my family and do a work retreat with my staff. Then came back and met up with the group. So, you can do whatever you want. You’re not obligated. It’s just really nice to have as a base.

Chase Warrington: Yeah.

Matt Bowles: Somebody else taking care of your stuff and then your community when you want to hang out with them. For me it was very cool and so that’s why I’m going to do it again for four months. And this is their first ever all Africa itinerary. So, I’m super excited about that, wanted to support it.

Chase Warrington: You’re like the seasoned veteran. You’ve already done this. You’ve been an alumnus of an alumni. You’re like the Godfather and what’s the movie called? Oh, the Godfather’s here. He’s been here; he’s done that.

Matt Bowles: Well, I think there’s going to be a lot of alumni actually coming on this Africa itinerary which will be really cool. So, it’s a lot of experienced travelers and different folks that are coming on. So, it’ll be fun.

Chase Warrington: Oh man, sounds awesome. I’m pretty excited to follow along. Something you referenced there that is really good to know is I think one of those potential downsides could be for somebody like you and I are extroverted. We enjoy being around people, but not everybody is necessarily like that. I know some people who feel when they get in those groups they feel kind of like trapped.

They don’t want to go. Even on a lighter scale. I don’t want to go join that expat group or that digital nomad group that meets up on Wednesdays to work, work together. Because I don’t want to feel like trapped in that. So, I think knowing that you’re not trapped, you’re not in there for a full year or four months or whatever, you can go off and do your own thing. But we’re going to provide you with the base and all the necessities. That’s the key.

Matt Bowles: Yeah. In terms of just expanding on, you know, if we want to talk about downsides, and it’s not just to Remote Year, but I think any type of traveling around there is oftentimes a very easy route to hang out only with other travelers, right?

Chase Warrington: Yeah.

Matt Bowles: So, whether that’s you’re traveling the world with a company like Remote Year, or there’s a number of other work travel programs as well, some of which I have patronized as well. And it’s very easy to just hang out with all of those international folks and just go out with them every night and go to the thing and hang out with them and really sort of not immerse or integrate or connect with the local area. But I think that’s also the case even when you’re just traveling by yourself.

You can like plug into this expat group and go to this expat bar and hang out with all these expats or go to this nomad hub and there’s all these other travelers. And I think that’s a very easy thing to do. And I think it certainly can be a downside if you’re not intentionally conscientious about making sure that you’re doing things that are actually connecting you with the local community and the local place and the local people. Because ultimately that’s a huge reason of why we’re traveling in the first place, right?

Chase Warrington: Yeah, absolutely, man. Like we were kind of touching on earlier, it’s about getting out of the mundane, the norm, and shaking things up and having something new on the horizon constantly. And if you’re not doing that, there’s some downsides to the lifestyle we’ve selected. There are some drawbacks. And if you’re not fully embracing and enjoying the reasons that you went on this journey, then you’re sort of doing yourself a disservice.

Matt Bowles: Yeah, 100%, man. 100%.

Chase Warrington: Actually, that’s funny because one of the downsides for me, and I want to use this as a segue to. To dive into what you do professionally because I find it pretty fascinating that you’ve built location independent business, that actually solves a problem and a pain point that I have. And so, I’m going to give a whole bunch of context here and circle back because I think this is kind of interesting.

So as an American guy, and it’s not just an American thing, but this is just something that I know for sure is true in my culture and in our culture, you’re kind of brought up thinking that what you do is you go to college, you get a career, then you buy your house as soon as you possibly can, because your house is the way to build wealth. And you got to own, and you can’t rent, and you progress through life from there.

And one of the big challenges that I faced was when my wife and I decided we were going to go nomadic. We were on that path. We had the stable careers and all the things, and we had a house and we were paying it down fast. And we were very proud of ourselves in that moment. But we sacrificed all that. This is one of those ‘downsides’ that we kind of got rid of that path, we abandoned that path and went on a different path where we were renting and we were not saving as much as we should have been, and we were living for experiences and not for the future and all of those things, those other cliches.

And so circling back like that’s continued to be one of those big challenges for me is, for instance, we’re still renting, we’re not owning. It’s a lot for us to think about living on the road and figuring out where we want to go next month. And also managing rental properties back in the U.S. it’s also, as an American, it’s hard for me to buy rental properties in other countries. So, it all kind of gravitates around what Maverick Investor Group does. And I want to ask you to explain the origin story of the company and a little bit more about what you guys do.

Matt Bowles: Yeah, absolutely, man. So, the original story is that my entire professional career up until the age of 30, I was working in the nonprofit advocacy space. And so, as I was doing that, I was thinking to myself, man, I am never going to make a lot of money at my job with my salary in the nonprofit space, so I should figure out how to invest. And so, what I did is I bought my first house. I bought a four-bedroom house, and I rented out three of the bedrooms to friends of mine. So, I had three streams of income.

And then in the first year of owning that house, it appreciated in value more than my entire annual salary. And I’m like, wait a minute, so you’re telling me I could have just sat on my couch and played video games and not even gone to work and made more money than I did working full time for a year? That’s interesting. And so, then I started reading everything I could read about real estate. And then I did a cash out refinance. And then I started Buying more rental properties. And I started buying them in out-of-state markets.

And then my friends started approaching me and they’re like, dude, how are you buying these rental properties, man? Can you show me how to do that too? I was like, sure, I’ll show you how to do it. You just buy the same stuff that I’m buying. If you want, I’ll show you how we do it. And I started helping my friends buy rental properties. And what I realized was that these real estate brokers that, that were helping us to buy these rental properties were making a commission on the properties we were buying, but we were not paying it.

Because in the United States, the seller pays 100% of the real estate brokerage commission. Buyer pays nothing. So, I’m like, well, that’s cool. They’re adding value to us. They’re helping us to find these properties and all that. And they’re getting compensated for it, but we’re not paying it. Fantastic. Love that arrangement. So, then I started to understand the business model. And so then, 30 years old, we had a change in management in my organization.

One day I walked into work park, completely out of the blue, I get fired from my job, totally unexpected. And this is one of those, like, you got to give us your phone, you got to be out by five. And I’m like, what? And so, I can literally remember standing there in the parking lot, I have no phone. And I’m like, okay, next steps. Drive to cell phone store to buy a cell phone to call my mother to tell her that I got fired, right? So, I’m like driving to the cell phone store and on that drive, I can remember saying to myself, all right, you know what?

I am not going to apply for another job. I am going to figure out how to start my own business and chart a completely different path. And there was only one problem. I had no idea how to start a business. And so, after I went to the cell phone store, I then drove to the bookstore. And anybody that knows LA, I literally drove to the Barnes and Noble at the Grove in Los Angeles. And I walked into the store, and I went to the business book section, and I started reading books on how to start a business.

This was 2007, and what I did is every day I just drove to the bookstore, and I sat there reading books on how to start a business in the business section. I wasn’t buying the books, Chase. I didn’t have a job. I was just sat there and ordered an espresso, and I just read them in the bookstore and so one day I walked in and there’s a new book on the business book section. It had just come out that day and it was called the Four-Hour Work Week by some 29-year-old kid that nobody had ever heard of by the name of Timothy Ferris.

Chase Warrington: Rings a bell.

Matt Bowles: Picked it up, looked at the back cover and I said this is the one I’m reading today. Read it the day it came out. And I said that’s what I’m doing man. Then I said, okay, so location independent business. And then what kind of business could I build? Well, I understand this real estate thing, I’m already doing it, I already have demand for it. My friends are asking me to help them already. If I could just start a real estate brokerage that would mean that I could get on the brokerage side of this and I could monetize it.

But again, remember the sellers pay all the real estate broker fees so I could just continue helping my friends buy real estate, not have to charge my friends anything. And now all of a sudden, I could make money and build a business out of that. That is for me because I don’t like selling stuff. I especially don’t like selling stuff to my friends. But I can just keep helping them and now all of a sudden get paid. Done. Sign me up for that. But I also realized one more thing. I don’t have most of the skills required to start a business.

So, I reached out to two friends of mine that have entirely different and complimentary skill sets, said let’s come together as business partners and build this business. We all have the skills if we put our talents together to do this. And so, we did and we founded it in 2007. But I sent them both a copy of the Four-Hour Workweek. I was like, read this book first because we’re going to build this with a location independent infrastructure. And my two business partners and I are still together today, 15 years later. We have never lived in the same city ever since the founding of the company. So, we live in different places. We’re building this virtually; this is happening and then we just built it virtually.

And so basically what we do is we help people buy cash flowing rental properties as an investment, they are completely turnkey, which means we’re talking about single family homes. They have already been fully renovated, they already have a long-term tenant in place on a lease, paying rent, so they’re cash flowing. And they have a local property management company who is on the ground there locally, who’s collecting the rent, handling any maintenance calls, dealing with the tenant so that you don’t have to be either the landlord or the rehabber, but you own the actual deeded real estate and you get all the benefits from that and you can own it from anywhere. So that’s what we do.

Chase Warrington: Wow, man, that is hilarious that you read the Four-Hour Work Week on the day it came out and the way that that changed the trajectory of your life, which I can totally relate to and I know many people listening, that book was pivotal in their life.

Matt Bowles: 100%, man, absolute game changer. And that informed the entire trajectory. And then from there we just continued building the business. And one of the things that we said is this is going to give us also a great advantage, not just for us because we can be location independent and our staff can be location independent, but it’s going to be a great advantage to our customers because it’s going to allow us the agility to help people buy in the best markets in the U.S. which change over time. Right. So, most real estate brokerages, all they have to sell is the properties that are right there in their local area. Right?

So, if you go to a real estate agent in any city and say, hey, is your city a good city to invest in? Should I buy real estate through? Yes, it’s great because they have nothing else to sell. So, they have to retrofit their marketing materials to sell the products that they have. What we do is flip the entirely around and we said, okay, let’s put the real estate investor first, our buyer, customers first, and provide them the agility to buy in the best markets which change over time. Right. So, we don’t care which real estate market you buy in. We’re totally agnostic. We can help you to buy in the ones that are most advantageous at the time that you’re ready to buy. So, 10 years ago, the most advantageous markets in the U.S. were very different from what they are today.

Chase Warrington: Right.

Matt Bowles: And we’ve had plenty of our clients buying rental properties and building portfolios through us for over a decade. And we’ve helped them to build their portfolio over time and to diversify across markets.

Chase Warrington: Wow. As you said, it flips the whole process upside down. And like I said, it solves a problem for someone like myself who says, yeah, I want to build wealth through real estate, but I also am not there. I don’t want to deal with the headache literally. I mean, I’m not joking. I’m not just saying this because we’re talking. Like my wife and I have this discussion weekly, if not daily. We want to do those ‘smart things’.

We know there’s opportunity out there. We’ve experienced the value of buying and selling at the right time and what real estate can do. I come from a real estate family. I’ve got uncles and cousins and family who are like big real estate people. And so, I sit there, and I go, what am I missing here? I mean, and it’s great that, yeah, I’m sitting here on the beach in the Mediterranean, but I also want a piece of that action back there. Do you find that a lot of your clientele are living a similar lifestyle to you or I, or is that somewhat separate?

Matt Bowles: Yeah, we’ve got a whole mix. So, first of all, absolutely, we are the number one provider of cash flowing single family rental properties in the U.S. to the digital nomad community. I just gave a keynote talk at the Bansco Nomad Fest about real estate investing for digital nomads and how to buy these cash flowing U.S. Rental properties from anywhere in the world and to use them to finance your epic international lifestyle. Right. I mean, that was the topic of my keynote.

And so, absolutely, we have nomads from all over the world that are buying rental properties in the U.S. without needing to live there or manage them directly. And we also have clients that are not nomads that live in a very expensive state like California, where it does not make a lot of sense to buy rental properties. And we’re helping those California residents buy rental properties in U.S. Markets that make a lot more sense for cash flow, like St. Louis and Kansas City and Indianapolis, where the price to rent ratios are dramatically more advantageous to the investor than they would be in California or New York City, et cetera.

Chase Warrington: Yeah, I got a Spanish friend, he’s a business owner in Valencia and he buys rental properties around Valencia. And his whole thing is he buys cheap ones for U.S. it might be equivalent to buying $100,000 homes or $125,000 homes, and he buys the cheap ones. And his whole idea is like, okay, using that math, I’ll buy ten $100,000 homes instead of one $1 million home, because I can rent that $1 million home for let’s say 10,000amonth, but I can rent those ten $100,000 homes for $1500 a month.

So, I’m increasing my cash flow by 50%. Therefore, anyway, this whole concept has wrapped up in my mind that additional cash flow. In his case, he’s reinvesting it in the business. But if you were a digital Nomad type or someone who wanted to live abroad, that could literally just be paying you your monthly salary. Wherever it is that you’re living, it could be covering all your expenses. I had a guy on the show a couple seasons ago who had set up a great situation where he had bought a home in the U.S., he wasn’t even American, but he bought a home in the U.S. Just like you and just like me.

Actually, he goes back there one month a year. It’s like his home base. He’s got his stuff stored there in an owner’s closet, but he Airbnb’s it the rest of the year. He’s got a property manager there that manages it all and the cash flow from that. So, he’s got people paying down the mortgage, building the wealth for him. The house is appreciative, and the extra cash flow pays for all of his expenses on his digital nomad life. Phil, if you’re listening, you know I’m talking about you. He’s living in South America, and it pays for all of his expenses every month. And it’s just one house.

Matt Bowles: Yeah, I mean, likewise. I have interviewed multiple people who are traveling the world full time, living entirely off of their passive rental income. So, any work that they choose to do or projects that they choose to do, or other stuff is entirely on their terms. And if they feel like it or not, because their passive rental income is financing their entire lifestyle, they’re basically retired and able to just, just travel around the world and do their thing. So, it’s pretty amazing.

Chase Warrington: What does someone need to do? Pretend we’re just talking, you’re telling, like, okay, I’m interested. What do we do from there? What does this process look like?

Matt Bowles: So, the beautiful thing, as I just mentioned, is that a hundred percent of our services are entirely free to you. So, one of the things we want to do is do a video consultation with every single person that we work with to understand your particular situation, your buying criteria, your real estate investment goals, all of that, and then we’ll help you to take the next steps for you.

So, if you want to qualify for a mortgage, we have preferred lenders we can introduce you to and you can qualify and see what type of mortgage rates and terms you would be able to qualify for. Then we can talk about market selection, right. Which market is going to be the best for you based on your criteria. And then we’ll show you and give you access to look at the rental properties. We can connect you with the property managers, all of this kind of stuff. So that we can basically hold your hand and walk next to you and facilitate, giving you the resources to conduct all of your own due diligence.

So, you’re going to be doing the due diligence because it’s important that it’s independent and it’s from a third party. So, for example, you’re going to hire your own home inspector to go in and inspect the entire property, give that inspection report to you. We’re not saying, oh, trust us, you know, we’ve already done the due diligence. No, we’re going to show you how to do it yourself independently, through third parties. You’re going to send in your own appraiser, your own inspector, all this kind of stuff. We’ll give you the resources on exactly how to do that, but you’re going to do it independently.

But we will be there to walk you through the entire process. And then once you’ve selected your property and you’re comfortable with it and you’ve gone through the due diligence and you close, you can close from anywhere. So, you can have a mobile notary meet you anywhere you happen to be. You can close from outside the country. You don’t even have to come into the U.S. and then you will own the property, and the cash flow will start coming into your account as soon as you close.

Chase Warrington: Nice. Sounds awesome, man.

Matt Bowles: That’s great.

Chase Warrington: Are you an investor yourself? Do you do some investing?

Matt Bowles: Well, I told you. Yeah. I mean, this is how the whole thing started, right? I just bought a rental property about two months ago in the St. Louis, Missouri market, which has been one of our most popular markets over the last year. I mentioned to you that the most popular markets have changed over time. So, 10, 11 years ago, the most popular markets were Phoenix, Arizona, right after the great real estate crash because everything was so inexpensive there. But now the prices have gone up so much and rents having kept pace with that.

So now you have this process in some of these markets called yield compression, where if you continue to buy there, you’re paying a lot more, but you’re not getting a lot more rent. So, it’s a less optimized situation. Our clients that bought their 10 years ago crushed it, but now it makes more sense to buy in these other markets. So, we’ve probably helped people buy in 12 different states or so over the last decade plus. And so, when people come into us now, we’ll talk to them about what the most advantageous markets are to buy in right now.

Chase Warrington: Now that’s very cool, man. I love it. Can non-Americans participate or do you mainly service people from.

Matt Bowles: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Nope. Foreign nationals are more than welcome. Now there’s going to be some different terms for them because for example, if you’re an American and you work for an American company and you have an American income and you file American taxes and you have an American credit score and all that, you are going to be more likely to qualify for conventional financing at an American bank and get the most advantageous terms for your mortgage. Mortgage.

So, most of our U.S. clients are able to put 20 down, get an 80 mortgage, you get the lowest interest rates, all that kind of stuff. If you are a foreign national and you’re not a U.S. resident, you don’t have a U.S. credit score, that kind of stuff. Then there are other options. There are private financing options. Those are usually going to be a little bit more money down, a little bit higher interest rate, but they’re also usually going to just be an asset-based loan or a non-recourse loan where they just secure the loan against the property and they say if you don’t pay the loan, we’ll just take the property. Like not a problem. Right?

Chase Warrington: Yeah.

Matt Bowles: So, they don’t have all of the income and credit and all of these qualifications and goes on your credit report and none of that. Right. Which also applies by the way, not just to foreign nationals, but we have clients that are buying rental properties in their self-directed retirement plans and other things like that that are going to not qualify for conventional bank financing. And so, they’ll take the private financing and do it that way.

Chase Warrington: Gotcha. Yeah, very cool. Good to know. I can imagine a lot of people’s wheels are turning right now going, that could be useful to my lifestyle. I know often, I mean, I think people just assume this stuffs not accessible. It sounds further from the realm of possibility than it actually is. One thing that I think America does really good is we facilitate doing business and we grease those wheels and make things happen.

I know people that have businesses, they’re foreigners, they live in other parts of the world, but they have businesses is established in the U.S. just because it’s, you know, advantageous to do business from there. And we make the process of formation and regulation and all that pretty easy comparatively. And real estate is no different.

Matt Bowles: Yeah. And a lot of people are amazed when they find out how inexpensive it can actually be. And when I say people, I mean people from more expensive markets. Whether that be California or whether it be, you know, Toronto or Australia or Tokyo or any of these other places where A single family home, they think, oh wow, that’s, that’s really expensive, that’s over a million dollars, this kind of thing. Whereas in the markets that we’re talking about, Chase, we are talking about a fully renovated detached single-family home in a nice suburban area, majority owner occupied neighborhood that you can get for starting around US$100,000, fully renovated.

Chase Warrington: Wow. Okay. Yeah, it’s crazy.

Matt Bowles: It’s crazy, right? And about a hundred thousand to two hundred thousand is about the range. Right. Because what you want to do is you want to be in those real estate investor sweet spots. So, when you go to these markets, the first thing is what we talked about, kind of the macro dynamics of these markets. They have strong real estate fundamentals, they have strong economic indicators, they have really solid price to rent ratios. But even within that, you want to make sure you’re buying in the right parts of that city.

Chase Warrington: Yeah.

Matt Bowles: So, if you’re buying something that’s too expensive, too high end, the luxury stuff, you’re not going to be able to rent it for enough money to make it cash flow and to make sense. Likewise, on the other side of the spectrum, if you are buying things in undesirable areas, you’re not going to be able to attract quality tenants that are going to pay their rent on time, stay for the long term, not going to have great resale exit strategy to primary homeowners if you’re not in an area where primary homeowners want to live and all of that.

And so, you want to be in what we call the real estate investor sweet spots of those cities. And that’s the important thing. So, in the cities that we’re talking about, most of these midwestern areas right now at the time of the recording, that’s about the 100,000. Some of them even start a little bit below that, up to about $200,000. That kind of price point is really where, where you’re going to have the high rental demand from quality tenants and also have the resale ability down the road to owner occupants when you’re ready to sell on the retail market.

Chase Warrington: Just hearing you, I mean, the words rattle off your tongue so easily and like for the common person, it’s just this like foreign language. Yeah, I don’t know, I want real estate, I want money. Can you make that happen, Maverick?

Matt Bowles: Exactly. Yeah. And so, these are all the things that we’ve been developing 15 years, cultivating where in the U.S. to buy and then within those metropolitan areas, where specifically within those metro areas are going to give you, the best quality tenants the highest demand properties, the best exit strategies so that your investment can be as profitable as possible. Right? So, you can maximize your net operating income while you’re holding it, and you can maximize your upside potential when you’re going to sell it. And those are really the factors that we take into account, and we’ve been developing for 15 years.

Chase Warrington: Dang, man, that’s amazing. What I find really cool about your story too is that you built this from the beginning with location independence in mind, which I think you’re a bit of a pioneer in that way. The fact that you were reading the Four-Hour Workweek the day it came out means that you were already at the forefront of that revolution. Because have you ever heard or seen the Tim Ferriss south by Southwest presentation of that, the year that the Four Hour Workweek came out? He recently uploaded it to his podcast within the last six months or so. Something. Have you seen it or heard it?

Matt Bowles: I don’t think that I have seen that.

Chase Warrington: Okay, so it’s from the same year. I believe it was 2007 and I could be wrong, but you can go to Tim Ferriss’s podcast and it’s scrolled back a couple months and you’ll find it. Someone apparently recorded it and just recently shared it with him. But it’s. He’s at south by Southwest presenting the concept of the four Hour Workweek. Nobody knew who he was. He was like a last minute addition to the thing. It wasn’t like anybody knew who he was.

And he presents this concept to all these high performing workaholic types that are there, these high performers that just can’t imagine anything other than working like 8-hour work weeks and working towards retirement. And he presents this whole other lifestyle and it’s hilarious to listen to live. But I guess what I’m trying to say there is you’re a bit of a pioneer. You built this business with location independence in mind. And I don’t know that it was necessarily travel that motivated you if it was, correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s cool that it led you to being able to travel and you kind of had that base before going out on the road. Like you were able to say, yeah, all right, let’s go to Cairo. Sure, I can do that.

Matt Bowles: Yeah. I mean, I think location independence is the value and then whatever type of way you choose to exercise that freedom is totally up to you. And that can change over time. Right. So, I was location independent from 2007 to 2013, but I was not a digital nomad during that period, my first six years of location independence, I chose to be based in LA because I loved la. I was in a relationship in LA. I was just kind of where I wanted to be, had no business purpose there. We weren’t doing any real estate in LA. I just chose to be there and to work from there because I loved it.

And so, then starting 2013, I made a different choice about how to exercise my location independence. And so, I think location independence and achieving that freedom really is the goal that’s beneficial to every single person. And then every single person is going to have their own ideal lifestyle and they can exercise that freedom however they choose, whatever is best for them. And that can change overtime for each of us. So, your lifestyle now might be a different than what you chose three, four or five years ago, might be different from what you choose five years from now. And that’s cool because you can make those adjustments because you have that freedom.

Chase Warrington: Yeah, that’s the dream. For me, that was what I really wanted. I mean, I was more motivated directly by travel. Like, I was, was really craving getting outside of my norm. I had been living in the southeast of the U.S. forever and just really wanted more than my one or two weeks of being abroad. And I craved like hearing other languages and just eating different food. I mean, all the sort of cliche stuff that you love about travel. That’s what I really wanted.

And so, I was just willing to sacrifice so much. And I think subconsciously on some level, like part of my like motivation to kind of like advocate for the future of work and do this podcast and all that is because I hated that I had to make those sacrifices in order to fulfill that dream to travel. Like, it really did irk me because I am pretty professionally motivated. I do think about those things associated with like finances and the future and retirement and all that stuff’s just like baked into my brain. I can’t make it go away. So having to do that trade off to achieve location independence, to be able to travel and scratch that itch that was experiencing other places around the world, I hated that I had to make those tradeoffs.

Today I’m very happy with my career and I got a good thing going. And I see millions of people around me getting their opportunity to live location independent. So, I see this wave and it’s awesome, it’s really fun. And it’s even cooler to meet people like you who are like, yeah, yeah, I was there at the very beginning. And you know, it wasn’t necessarily travel, it was just location independence, but now I got it. Now I travel the world. I’m getting ready to go spend four months in Africa. This gives me a ton of energy.

Matt Bowles: 100%, man. Yeah, totally agree, brother.

Chase Warrington: Yeah, it’s a fun thing to be a part of and I’m excited to see where it goes. What do you think’s next? This whole digital Nomad remote work. What’s the next thing on the horizon?

Matt Bowles: Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, certainly the pandemic made a lot of people, whether they’re running companies or whether they’re working for companies, both sides realize, actually, I guess this job can be done without coming into an office, which is, of course, what we’ve all been saying for years. And so, I think workers are now starting to demand more location independent benefits and more freedom to work when they want, where they want, how they want, as long as they get it done.

Moving towards sort of a results-based economy, as opposed to a time-based economy where somebody is checking what time you come in and what time you leave and how long you’re sitting there and stuff like that. And then I think podcasts like yours are inspiring people. Wow. Now that I can work from home, maybe that means I could also work from Valencia or from the beach in Thailand or from Brazil or from wherever I want to be, because. Why not?

Chase Warrington: Why not?

Matt Bowles: And so, I think a lot of people are starting to realize that. And your podcast and the people that you’ve interviewed has just been an incredible resource to people who are in that exact transitionary moment. They’re like, okay, all of a sudden, I can work from home. So technically I’m location independent. So, what now can I do to design my lifestyle and make things incredibly exciting and fulfilling? And they come across your podcast and they listen through it, man, and just gives them amazing ideas and amazing case studies and amazing examples and is helping people to sort of live their best life, man. I think that’s where we’re going.

Chase Warrington: Yeah. And your podcast as well, which we’re going to talk about in a second and link to in the show notes. Of course. I want to say that one of the motivations behind starting this podcast was to showcase different ways that people could build location independence or at least live abroad.

Actually. Location independence, I would say was like a notch down because not everybody cares about that. Some people, they’re married to an Argentine and they want to be able to move to Argentina with their family, but they can’t take their job, or they don’t know how they’re going to make that happen. Or some people have a desire to do what you’re doing and travel perpetually and whatever the case may be. So, I really wanted to showcase like there’s a ton of people that are living abroad for a year, for a month, for their whole life.

And they’re doing it in different ways. From going on student visas to building location independent businesses, to being a flight attendant, to whatever it might be. There are all these different avenues you can get there. And I really never thought about until talking with people like yourself, I never thought about real estate being one of those avenues to creating a location independent lifestyle. Kind of like contradictory. It’s like this big giant thing that a lot of people think is the thing weighing them down and keeping them from being able to go somewhere. And in fact, it could be your ticket to going abroad. And that’s all kind of hitting me right now as we’re talking. That’s a very cool element of this whole conversation.

Matt Bowles: Well, one of the things that is really important to realize, I think, is the diversity of things that can be made into location independent businesses. And real estate certainly is not a traditionally virtual category, right?

Chase Warrington: Right.

Matt Bowles: When you think about it, okay, I own a real estate brokerage. Owning a real estate brokerage is not something that people would typically think would facilitate a lifetime of full-time itinerant world travel that has absolutely nothing to do with business. And so, one of the things that I find interesting about my show as well is that I get to interview people and sometimes I interview people that also have built businesses in completely nontraditionally virtual categories, but they’ve built them with the location independent infrastructure.

I interviewed one of my very good friends, actually, Jen McGee who owns an architectural design company. She has Fortune 500 clients, Barnes and Noble and Sharper Image and this kind of stuff. She won an award for designing the duty-free shops at JFK airport in New York City. She has this caliber of business, and she runs the company while traveling the world full-time as an itinerant nomad. She was actually on my Remote Year program. So, we were together for like 12 months traveling the world. I interviewed another friend of mine, Dhiraja Asili. We’re in Kenya together in Nairobi for a month and that’s where I met her. And she was there for a month just nomading.

And we were talking about business and so what’s your business? She said, oh, I run a live events company. This was pre Covid. All of the live in person events take place in the United States. She gets A hundred thousand paying customers per year that attend her live events in the United States, and she runs that business while traveling the world. I interviewed her on my podcast from Nairobi, Kenya. As we were just there, chilling, hanging out with no business purposes and running our remote businesses that all involve things that are back in the States. It’s amazing what people are doing.

Chase Warrington: God, it’s so inspiring, man. I would highly recommend people listening. If you enjoy About Abroad and especially if you enjoy About Abroad for these types of reasons, then I would really recommend checking out the Maverick Podcast. I’ll let you tell us a little bit more about generally what you’re talking about, and we’ll link it in the show notes. But I listen, I’m a fan and that’s why it’s so cool to have you here on the show. You’ve been doing it a lot longer than me, so kudos to you. Once again, a pioneer.

Matt Bowles: Well, thanks, brother. Yeah. So, you can listen to The Maverick show with Matt Bowles. Wherever you are listening to this podcast, just type in the Maverick show with Matt Bowles and there you will see it. And it really started because I was nomading around full time Chase, and I started just getting into these incredible conversations. One time I was like on a rooftop in Thailand and I just met these other nomads, and I was like, wait, what do you do? Just like the story I’m telling you about Daraja, we’re in Nairobi, Kenya. We’re like, wait, you do what? You run what kind of business? And you’re here in Kenya? Wait, what?

Chase Warrington: Tell me more. I got to know.

Matt Bowles: I was like, I’ve got to share this with other people. I need to turn the microphones on and record this so other people can hear about this. Not just me meeting somebody at a party and having a one-time conversation, but we’re actually recording them so other people can listen and go back. And so, I was like, I’ve got to do a podcast because. Because I just started meeting so many incredible digital nomads that have built these fascinating businesses or just had these incredible travel stories and adventures and were telling me about things and I was like, wouldn’t it be awesome if we could just record this and just let the world listen in on these conversations and understand how you built that business? Because with each of these people, I dissect it like, wait a minute, how did you build that? How do you run it? How does it work? How do you manage your staff from abroad? What happens if this or this or this happens? How do you Handle that. What tips do you have for people that are at these different points in their journey?

And so, we break all of that down, pull out actionable tips and tactics that people can use in their own life, both in terms of the entrepreneurial stuff as well as the lifestyle design stuff. And we talk about travel stories and adventures and so puts a lot of people onto these incredible international experiences that they can just put on their bucket list and now be aware of to go and do so. Super fun conversations. Most of them are over a bottle of wine. We literally open a bottle of wine at the beginning of the show and just drink through it and just have these casual conversations about travel and the Nomad life and location independence and how to build remote businesses and all that kind of stuff. So super, super fun. So, yeah, wherever you’re listening to this, just type into The Maverick show with Matt Bowles. It would be amazing to get your feedback, too. So, check out the show and would love to hear what folks think of it.

Chase Warrington: Nice. It’s a lot of fun and I feel such a prude. I mean, you invited me for a glass or a few of wine and, you know, here we are drink less on my boring About Abroad. So next time I’m having you back for an About Abroad happy hour, where we do normally accompany it with a cocktail drink of your choice, whether it be tea, coffee, beer, wine, whatever is your thing, and we’ll have a good time.

Matt Bowles: I love it, man. Sounds amazing.

Chase Warrington: We have a new tradition About Abroad that I want to end with today. The previous guest left a question for you. They didn’t know it was you. They just left a question. You’re going to leave a question for the next guest. You don’t know who that person is. So, this question I’m seeing for the very first time right now, and we’re going to hear your answer and then we’ll get your question once we’re off there. You ready?

Matt Bowles: I guess. So. Hit me with it.

Chase Warrington: Yeah. I mean, you didn’t know this was coming.

Matt Bowles: Did not. No prep.

Chase Warrington: Yeah. All right, here we go. So, if you were going to put down roots right now, where would you be putting down your roots?

Matt Bowles: Rio de Janeiro in Brazil.

Chase Warrington: Oh, okay. Elaborate for us really quick.

Matt Bowles: I mean, Brazil is just magical. The harder part about that was picking Rio over Sao Paulo or over some other part of Brazil. I think Brazil is, for me, just an incredibly magical place. Every time I step foot in that country, it’s just enchanting. It just has an energy about it. The music and the Culture, I mean, kind of similar to what I was talking to you about. What, West Africa, right. With Ghana and Nigeria and these kind of places.

I mean, very similar vibe that I feel there in terms of how music and dance infuses that culture. Street parties, it’s a way that people approach life, I think that inspires me, you know what I mean? Yeah, it’s just regularly just prioritizing things like. Like street parties and music and dance and beach life and all of that kind of stuff, man. And so, every time I go there, it just does really good things for my soul, for my spirit, and I just look forward to going back. So, if I had to pick one spot, man, that would probably be it.

Chase Warrington: You know what I love about talking with you is you have an amazing energy, and you approach life with a zest that I think a lot of us probably envy and want to emulate. So, keep that up, man. Keep that energy flowing. I see it in the social media that you put out there and I hear it in your podcast. And talking with you, it’s even much more apparent. It’s contagious and it’s awesome on many levels. So, man, keep that up.

Matt Bowles: Thank you, brother. I appreciate that, man. I feel the same about you, bro. I’m big fan of the show and I love what you’re doing as well, man.

Chase Warrington: Yeah, well, thank you. This was great. We will do the happy hour. There will be a round two. I’m forcing you into it whether you want to or not, I hope. Anyway, man, thank you so much. Safe travels. Enjoy. I look forward to following along and catching up again soon.

Matt Bowles: I appreciate it, man. And if your listeners want to learn more information about any of the stuff that I’m up to, like if they’re interested in learning, we have so much free stuff. Like all of our real estate information is free. Our consultations are free. All this stuff is entirely free. So, if anybody wants to learn more about this stuff that we’ve been talking to, I’ve actually created a special page just for your listeners so they can just go to themaverickshow.com/aboutabroad. And there we’ve got a completely free white paper on real estate investing for digital nomads. We’ve got a link to schedule a completely free video consult with Maverick Investor Group. We can talk to you, answer all your questions and see if we can add value to you. And if folks are interested in Remote Year. Since I’m an alumni, I was literally just thinking about this as we were talking, but I’ll Add this to the page. I actually have an affiliate link for Remote Year which gives you a discount if you actually want to do Remote Year. So, if you’re interested in getting a discount when you do Remote Year, if you’re interested in that, I will put that link here as well. So, you can just use that and you can grab a discount if anybody’s interested. I hadn’t even thought about that. But since we were talking about it, it’s like let’s give people as much value as possible.

Chase Warrington: It makes perfect sense.

Matt Bowles: I’ll put that on the page as well. And then of course a link to the podcast and everything. So, if you just go to themaverickshow.com/aboutabroad, all that stuff will be in one place. And of course, every listener of the show gets VIP treatment at Maverick. So just come through, let us know you heard us here and we’d love to support everybody and provide as much value as we can.

Chase Warrington: Yeah, man, well, 100%. All those links are going to be in the show notes and so everybody can just access those with a quick click and yeah, I mean there’s zero doubt on the value there. So super cool for you to offer the Remote Year link. I imagine a lot of people are interested in that. I’m interested in that. I want to go. So anyway, yeah, all thatt’s in the show notes, everybody. You can take a look and go check all that out. Dude, thank you so much, man. Hope you have a great trip. And like I said, I look forward to following along.

Matt Bowles: Thanks Chase. I appreciate it.

All right. I hope you enjoyed that episode. And now that you have heard an episode of About Abroad, I want to encourage you to give Chase a rating and review of the show and to subscribe to his show. Wherever you are listening to this podcast, you can just type in About Abroad and subscribe to his show as well. He has a lot of incredible guests come to his show, so I think you will definitely enjoy that. And then I also want to encourage you to listen to episode #189 of The Maverick Show where I interviewed Chase so that you can hear more of his story as well. And of course, everything we talked about today in this episode will be in the show notes. So, you can just go to one place at themaverickshow.com, go to the show notes for this episode. There you will find more information about how you can get your real estate consultation with Maverick Investor Group, how you can get your hundred-dollar credit for remote use, and all of the other things that we talked in this episode. It will be in one place at themverickshow.com all right, good night everybody.