Matt Bowles: My guest today is Matthias Zeitler. He is a location independent entrepreneur with a passion for community and ecosystem development. Originally from Munich, Germany, he is now a full-time digital nomad and has been to over 100 countries. He is currently helping to grow Bansko, Bulgaria into one of the premier destinations for digital nomads. He founded Coworking Bansco in two and he is now constructing Coliving Bansco, a 42-unit purpose built co-living space together with investors from the community. He regularly speaks and mentors at various tech and co-working and startup events around the world. He is also the organizer of Bansko Nomad Fest, an annual weeklong celebration of the location independent lifestyle where I will be a featured speaker later, later this year.

Matthias, welcome to the show.

Matthias Zeitler: Thank you Matt for having me.

Matt Bowles: I am so excited to have you here, man. You and I have known each other for like four years now and so I’m super excited to finally get you on the podcast and have this conversation. But let’s just start off setting the scene, talking about where we are recording this today in good nomad fashion. We are both in totally different continents, totally different time zones. I am actually in the city of Cali in Colombia. And where are you today?

Matthias Zeitler: Excellent. I’m in Bansko, of course. It’s a small rural Bulgarian mountain resort, but it’s a pretty cool place. There’s a lot of nature around here.

Matt Bowles: It’s a very cool place. I went there for the first time in 2019. It was in the wintertime though, which is also very cool because it’s a bit of a ski town. But I am super excited to come back there in the summer and see you and everybody else at Nomad Fest this summer. But I want to start off here just talking a little bit about your background, just to give. Give folks some context on you. Can you talk a little bit about where you were born and raised? And as you were growing up, how did your interest in travel initially start to develop?

Matthias Zeitler: Yeah, so I’m from Munich in Germany. I studied in Salzburg in Austria. And then the first job I took was in the localization industry, where we deal with translating languages. I was responsible for technology there, and this got me into trouble. So, I had to spend a lot of time at different customers that we had around the world. I came to a lot of trade shows, so I was always traveling. But it took me a while before I became a nomad. So back then, I was basically having a job with a career at a large multinational company. And then at some point, I started to build my own business. And even though I had some people in the office, I realized pretty quickly that I can actually work from wherever there’s a computer. And so, this is how I became an accidental nomad and then use this freedom to travel more and more and explore the world.

Matt Bowles:  Can you talk a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey and how you transitioned from that more traditional corporate lifestyle into becoming a location independent entrepreneur?

Matthias Zeitler: Yeah. So, I was working in a large multinational business dealing with translation services, and I saw a need for multilingual search engine optimization, which was kind of related to what I did at my job, but something that the company didn’t offer. So, I decided to start my own business and to develop some software for people that have multilingual websites. I managed to get into an incubator in Salzburg in Austria that provided some initial funding, then raised some more money to develop MVP, a minimal viable product to develop the first prototype to find the first customers for what I was building. So, the business was growing and I felt I had to supervise employees. I mean, of course, this is a long time before remote work was really a big thing.

So, I had an office and I thought, I’m more important if I have more people that I can see in the office and we are growing desks, that this is growing importance. But then somehow, I ran into some people that had a totally different view on how to do business and how to live their life, that were basically homeless, that just had like a backpack and traveled the world with a computer. So, I tried this out for a little bit, and for me, this worked very well because my development team was always offshore. So, I had a few guys in India, a few guys in the Philippines. So, they were not really in my office. And I realized if part of my team is not in the office, why do I have to be at a specific location? And so, this started my nomad journey and I was super happy to experience this freedom.

Matt Bowles:  And how did you structure your lifestyle initially? And then as the years went on, how did that sort of evolve in terms of your nomad lifestyle design?

Matthias Zeitler: So, when I first started, I had a base in Salzburg and I always traveled for about one month and then returned to Salzburg to basically do my laundry and do my accounting. And after a few years of doing this, I really became fed up with this because you always return home to do all the unpleasant things. So, I decided this is not the right thing for me. And I was looking for a different base where first of all, I take advantage of a lower tax structure. So, Salzburg is beautiful, but taxation is about 60%. And then if you don’t use the infrastructure and everything that you pay with your taxes for, it really becomes annoying. So, I was looking around to find a different base for myself. Also, like, it doesn’t really hurt that you have an apartment in a place that you don’t use and pay a lot of money for. And this is how I discovered Bulgaria.

Matt Bowles:  I love that man, that is awesome. Well, you have had a number of incredible travel adventures along the way 100 countries, we’re not going to be able to go through them all, but I do want to ask you about a couple of them. You have done the rickshaw run in India. For people that have never heard of this, just explain what it is in general and then can you share what your experience was like?

Matthias Zeitler: Of course. I mean, after traveling a lot and exploring a lot of different countries, I changed my travel style to really seek out specific adventures. And one of these adventures that I always wanted to do is the rickshaw ready. So basically, it’s about 40 different cook cooks rickshaws, like these motorbikes, tricycles that a company there is bringing together called the Travel Scientists. And they organize a rally that spans about two weeks where you ride these rickshaws across India. And it starts in a big city. So, I started in Chennai. I don’t know how many million Indians live there, but there are millions of cars and you have this little Tuk-tuk. So initially it’s super scary to go into Indian traffic. It’s totally unlike traffic in Munich.

But after about two weeks of exploring all the backcountry roads and seeing everything that’s there, you actually got quite comfortable in these little tricycles. So, it was a great way for me to really see India. Like the rural India that you pass, like all the little restaurants on the side of the street where you eat from the banana leaves. All the towns that we passed, it didn’t have like big chain hotels, so we always stayed in smaller guest houses. And there were people from all around the world in this 40 rickas around you. And we always met up on different stops on the road, like if there was a temple or anything other sight to see. One day we went up the mountain road and I think the rickshaw, I’m a bigger guy, so my rickshaw was definitely underpowered for going uphill. And then if you go downhill, I don’t know if the brakes on these things work. It is an adventure and I really enjoyed it because it gets you out of your comfort zone. You can really see a different lifestyle. And driving a vehicle like this also puts your driving skills to the limits.

Matt Bowles:  That’s amazing. Well, one of the other things that you have done in that same part of the world is you took a catamaran out into the Sea of Bengal. Can you talk about that experience? I guess the context for it? What were you attempting to do and how was the experience and how did it go?

Matthias Zeitler: Yeah, this is also an interesting story. So, I saw a guy posting on Facebook that he’s looking for people that sail for with him from the Maldives to Thailand. And he’s looking for people that can join this trip, like basically next week. So I was, okay, this sounds interesting. What they wanted to do there was like two guys from Germany, they wanted to build a co-working space on a boat called Cobalt. And this initial trip that I went on with them was basically to get the catamaran, buy the catamaran, and then bring it to the dock in Thailand where they wanted to do this transformation. So it was like a really old boat, like 40 years old. When you saw it, you had the feeling that this thing might fall apart very soon. And of course, crossing the sea of Bengal is quite a journey. That’s a few thousand miles. It took us 18 days to actually cross it. And it’s far away from shores. And normally I’ve been on sailing trips before.

Normally you always stay close to the shore, and then maybe you’re away for like two or three hours from the shore. But if you look on the maps, the sea of Bangalore is pretty big. So, if something happens, there’s nobody around there to help you. I don’t even think that you can Have a helicopter to the next country because it’s just far out. So, we went on this catamaran trip, and after a while, the captain thought we need a little bit more excitement, because if you sail for, like, days and days and there’s only blue water around you, it can get a little bit boring. So, we decided, okay, let’s see if a rope can pull us behind this catamaran. And the first thing, the captain jumps in and he holds onto the rope and everything is great. And I’m like, okay, this seems easy. I should do this. So, I jump in the water, I hold on to the rope. But what I didn’t realize, if you do this, you have to be on your back. So, if you are facing forward, it obviously the rock will pull you underwater. You’re not getting any air. Catamaran is moving pretty fast, so I had to let go of the rope.

So basically, it tore it out of my hands. And then to turn a catamaran around is also like a pretty big thing. So, it’s not like a car where you just turn left and it’s turning around. So, they had to stop the sails and then move it around. And of course, I could see the catamaran at all times because it was pretty big. But the guys on the catamaran couldn’t see me at all. And they were pretty scared that they lost one of their friends now on the water. So, this was my first experience as a man overboard. I don’t recommend it, but everyone survived it or lots of good emotion. When I was finally back on board, there were many other fun things going on this trip. So, we ran out of fuel, so we had to get more fuel. We saw a small island. We didn’t want to deal with, like, all the paperwork, so we decided, let’s just sail into this island and see if somebody is selling us some fuel. What we didn’t realize it was a big Indian holiday and it was a military base and they were on high alert and we didn’t have any power left.

So, we kind of sailed without lights into their base. And they were not very happy with Indian military people. So, there were like many, many of these adventures. And I think what I have learned is often you just have to say yes to opportunities that present. So, you don’t necessarily know how it’s going to end, but there’s always going to be some fun. And I think this is what happens with go on sailing trips or if you go on a rickshaw rally or similar adventures.

Matt Bowles:  What impact would you say that all of these travel experiences and all of these adventures have had on you over the years. When you think back to when you were just kind of starting out to now having experienced all this kind of stuff, what impact has that had on you as a person?

Matthias Zeitler: I think it makes you more calm. So, if you experience a lot of different cultures, a lot of different activities and you see in the end it always turns out right, it gives you a different perspective in life. You’re less stressed about things, you’re more calm. I think in times of danger or risk. Maybe you think first. Although I love scuba diving, for example. And it’s also an environment where you don’t want to make a lot of mistakes. Right. And I think being calm and just collected, focused, I think this helps you. And if you put yourself into different situations when you travel, this trains you basically to be a little bit more relaxed when it comes to life.

Matt Bowles:  I love that man. All right, I want to talk a little bit about Bansko now. Let’s just go all the way back. What is sort of your origin with basically falling in love with the city of Bansko and then being really committed to building in the city of Bansko in the way that you are right now? Can you take us sort of to the beginning about how that actually came about and just talk about what you love about Bansko?

Matthias Zeitler: Yeah. So, when I still had my base in Salzburg, I was working in a co-working space. Co work in Salzburg, which is still for me a role model, how a community operated space should be. And with a few guys there, we discovered that in the winter German retirees go to Turkey because it’s cheaper for them and it’s warmer to stay like in a five-star, all-inclusive hotels and to stay at home. So, we were thinking maybe these old people are onto something. And this created an opportunity for us to also go to a five-star, all-inclusive hotel in winter. So, we set up like a temporary co-working space there for six weeks. Enjoyed the area. And I organized this for three or four years. And then at some point I decided, okay, if I can do a pop up co-working space where I go to a cool place, maybe I should consider a more permanent solution. And I talked to some of the guys from this project and I also ran into my co-founder, Uwe, and we all had kind of the same ideas.

So, I was consciously looking around, is there a place around the world where I want to be based? And a friend of mine mentioned Bulgaria is a good option because it’s in the EU. So, there’s no visa runs for Europeans. It’s military and climate, it has mountains and most importantly, it has a 10% flat income tax. So, for me this was okay, maybe this is a place I should check out. So, with a few friends, we came for exploration tour to Bansko about six years ago in the summer. So, we rented a house together to see is this a place that could work year-round. So Bansko is very famous as a ski resort, but if you’re in a seasonal place and what do you do in the off season? But we came specifically in the summer to see what’s happening here in the summer and wow, there were many, many things happening.

So, the town is putting on a lot of festivals during the summer season, including a jazz festival, an opera festival, a film festival, to create this idea of an all-season resort. Plus of course there’s a lot of nature. There was like mountain biking, there was hiking, there are hot springs, it’s very close to Greece. So, like in two hours you can be on the beach. There are many things to do here. And we just loved it. And I looked at Uber and Uber looked at me and we said, okay, let’s, let’s do something here. We ran into our first operations manager. She was totally excited about the idea of having a co-work in space in Bansko to attract some interesting people. And we rented a small place and just decided to start. Of course, when we started, we didn’t really imagine this would become one of the most attractive nomad destinations in Europe.

We were more like; we need to have a small place where we can work and a shelf where we can put some board games. And then we will invite some of our nomadic friends that we’re not too lonely, surrounded by like all these tourist industry businesses here. And this worked great. So, in the first year, a few of our friends came, we played a lot of board games, we explored the area. But then what we didn’t account for is that our friends really liked it so much that they told their friends. So, the next year a lot of more people showed up and it basically was growing from there. And at some point, Uwe and I, we realized that this is no longer just like the 10 friends that we know. But this is growing more and more into a business is people moving to Bansko.

So, I think in the meantime we had about 40 people that bought apartments here. We have a lot of people that moved their residency here to take advantage of the taxation. We have even the first Bansko babies where people in Our community are now growing the next generation of coworkers. So, it really turned into something bigger and something that affects way more people than just me and Uwe. And I think that we decided, okay, if it’s more people and if it’s bigger and it needs to become a more professional business. And we really have impact on people’s lives where they invest money to buy apartments or move their companies here. Let’s turn this into something really big.

Matt Bowles:  Well, I have been to Coworking Bansko. It is a spectacular space. And I think one of the things too that’s really important to point out in terms of why so many nomads are being attracted to Bansco is the quality of life to cost of living ratio. It is remarkably affordable to live or spend time in Bansko compared with, for example, other places in Western Europe or things like that. And the quality of life is spectacular. And so, it’s really, I think, this hidden gem in that the quality of life to cost of living ratio is just incredibly optimized there.

Matthias Zeitler: Yeah. So, I think affordability is very important. And it’s not only the fact that it’s affordable, but this affordability means that when you meet people in our community, there’s basically no limits on what you can do. So, most people here eat out every day. You never think about, can I afford to join an activity like if you go rafting or if we go hiking or if you go on a trip to Greece. Money is never an issue. And this means that the community can really enjoy a lot of things together. You never have someone who is worrying, okay, if I go out for cocktails tonight, can I drink three or four cocktails? Money is never an issue. And I think this is super important in the community also to put everyone on equal footing there.

Matt Bowles:  Can you talk a little bit about how you have built and scaled the co-working space and also built community year-round around the co-working space and how that has all evolved?

Matthias Zeitler: Yeah. So, I think our secret is that actually the community is building most of the things that we do here. So, for me, it was always important to involve other people though. We collected a lot of feedback initially from members what they want and we are building what they want. But they also use the co-working space in the community as a platform for all the things that they want to do. So, we have people that put on their own events. We have a lot of people that help with organization or representation of the co-working space. We give people the opportunity at Nomad Festival to get us on a stage, especially for people that are not professional speakers and that rarely go to event, it’s a really cool experience. To be on a big stage where you have a few hundred people auditoriums. It gives you a lot of confidence. And this is I think what the magic of Bansko is. It’s not so much what Matthias wants to make, but it’s really what do our 100 members want to make. And then often I listen and I see how we can integrate everyone into what’s happening here. That they also have a feeling of ownership.

Matt Bowles: That’s awesome. Can you talk a little bit about the co-living space that you are currently building and what the vision is for that?

Matthias Zeitler: Yeah, I mean this is a super good question as a follow up. So, when I say I want people to have ownership, we tried a few times to give people ownership in the co-working space by transforming the co-working space into a co-op where people would own shares in the co-working business. But for many, many reasons this has failed. Even though I think it’s a great idea, the issue with this is people don’t really see investing into Coworking Bansco as an investment because the margins are pretty low. I run this more of a as a hobby. So, you’re not going to get rich by investing into the co-working space. Plus, if you have 1 or 2% of the co-working space because we have a lot of owners in the community, then also you won’t have a lot of impact on the business decisions.

And so, this was difficult and we came up with another idea. So, a lot of people that come to Bansko, they’re always looking for accommodation. And one thing that’s lacking in Bansko is a little bit more premium accommodation. There’s lots of apartments, but because they’re super cheap, it also means that the furniture is old, the kitchen doesn’t have an oven or dishwasher, the heating system costs a lot of money because there’s no insulation. So, there’s a lack of a little bit more premium apartment, not necessarily super luxury apartments, but just a higher standard. So, I decided that maybe we should build a co-living space where people can rent accommodation in the same building where we have the co-working community. And a great way to get the community to own part of this is to offer apartments in the co-living space as an investment because everyone understands real estate.

If you buy an apartment, you own an apartment, you have the details apartment, you get the rental. If you rent it out, you can sell it if you sell it. So, it simplifies a lot of things. Around ownership to own an apartment instead of owning a percentage of a business where you don’t have a lot of impact. So, we found a building here that is suitable as a co-living space. It’s about 42 units. It has 700 square meters of communal area that we will operate as co-living space and co-working space. Meaning the will be a kitchen, there will be meeting rooms, there will be activity rooms, there will be a small restaurant area where we can invite a commercial chef from time to time. There will be a large open work area, an outdoor area, little private offices. So basically, it does everything what I wanted to do and I think it does everything what we need to grow the community to the next level.

Matt Bowles: When do you expect that it might be operational?

Matthias Zeitler: So, we have collected the commitments from the first buyers for apartments. We are in the contracting with a building company and the plan is to complete the building by May next year. It will take about 12 months, which I think is great because this means a summer opening next year.

Matt Bowles:  Amazing. That’s so awesome. Well, I am on my way to Bansko this summer to speak at your Bansko Nomad Fest and I want to talk a little bit about that maybe let’s just start back a little bit though with the origin of Bansko Nomad Fest. How did you initially come upon the idea and decide to do it? When did it start and how has it evolved since.

Matthias Zeitler: So the idea for Bansko Nomad Fest is that Bansko is a little bit away from the beaten parts for travelers. So, you have to come here to come to the co-working space. You have to travel here, right. And you don’t know are you going to like it and you have to stay maybe for a month and then if you don’t like it in the small weird place than what you do. The idea for Nomad Fest is to take this fear of people and instead of asking them to commit to a month in Bansko, come to an event. Because a lot of people understand you go to an event, something is happening, you can leave. So what we do with Bansko Nomad Fest is we compress everything that we normally do in Bansko, like having skill shares and presentations and keynotes and doing a lot of mountain activities and connecting people and exploring all the restaurants and just having fun in the mountains. We compress all of this into one week as Bansko Nomad Fest and this makes it easier for people to first explore. Barnsko.

Matt Bowles:  Yeah, I’m on the website right now and the way that it describes it on the Website is a celebration of the location, independent lifestyle and nomad mindset. For one week, hundreds of nomads request remote workers and freelancers will take over a beautiful village in Bulgaria for an amazing mix of presentations, workshops, sports, mindfulness in nature. Can you talk a little bit about how the past festivals have gone, what people can expect when they attend Bansko Nomad Fest? What is it like to be there?

Matthias Zeitler: Basically, how we structure it. In the mornings we always have keynotes from different people from the nomad scene. So, we have some successful entrepreneurs, we have some entrepreneurs that are just starting out, we have some people that talk about mindfulness and wellness, we have some lifestyle people, you have some members from our community. So, it’s really a broad mix of who is in the nomad industry. And on the one hand, it should inspire people that are not nomadic to become nomadic, but it should also help people that are already nomadic to up level and see where they want to grow and what they want to do. And then in the afternoons we have different things going on.

On the one hand, we give every participant a stage, so we run an unconference format where people that are not speakers can still pitch a session and connect with like-minded people, share their passions and skills. Also, there’s a lot of activities happening in the afternoons, like for example rafting, horseback riding, going on quads, hiking, mountain biking, wine tasting. So basically, everything that you can do here in Bansko we do in the afternoons. And then in the evenings it’s always like party time, there’s a karaoke, we have some quiz nights, we have people playing werewolves, we have music and DJs, we go to the hot springs together for pool party. So, the evenings always then to socialize. In the past we always had nomad soulmates here, for example. So, we also tried to give people a soulmate. The last two years these were physical dating events. This year they’re launching an app. So, everyone at Bansko Nomad Fest gets a new Nomad Soulmate app and then they can connect here in Bansko, but also use these connections when they travel worldwide to hook up with people again.

Matt Bowles:  That’s so awesome. Well, I am just looking at the powerhouse list of speakers that are going to be at the Nomad Fest speaking this year. I’m super honored to be on the same stage as a lot of these people, but I want to just rattle off some names here because Maverick Show listeners will know a lot of these people because I have interviewed them on the Maverick Show. So, these people are speaking there in person. This year and have also been on the Maverick Show. Chris Reynolds is going to be there. Sergio Sala is going to be there. Adi Cohen is going to be there. Nora Dunn is going to be there. Jordan Carroll, Jimmy Naraine, Goncalo Hall, Anja Winter, all of these people have been interviewed on the Maverick Show. And we’ll link their interviews up in the show notes so you can go check them out if you haven’t seen them or you don’t know who they are yet because you somehow missed that particular interview. But all of them are going to be there speaking alongside me this year, which is going to be just amazing. And then they are tons of other speakers, many of whom I have never even met. And I’m super excited to connect with. So, it’s an incredible lineup of speakers. What else can we tell people about what to expect this year if they’re able to come to Bansko? What are the dates, when is the event, and what can people expect this year if they come?

Matthias Zeitler: So, it’s happened at the last week of June, so it’s June 26th till July 3rd. I think what they can expect when they come, they can expect a lot of new connections with other nomads. So, this is because we bring so many people together and we have so many activities where you can get to know people, you will make a lot of new friends, and a lot of these people, they will travel with you. So, it’s always interesting for me to see that when people post afterwards where they met up with other people that they met in months ago. So, it’s really an event to make connections. I think this is our main focus. And this is also how you should judge if this is a successful event for you or not. Is like, how many new people that you really wanted to meet are you going to meet here.

Matt Bowles:  Yeah, I totally agree. I think that’s so important because especially too, for folks that are just starting out as nomads, the community building and the social connection and all that stuff is so important. And I have met so many of my podcast guests and so many of my personal friends at nomad events like this, where people come together and they spend a quality week or more at something like this, and then they walk away with really deep connections and friendships, professional connections, personal friendships and everything else. So, I am super excited to attend. So, I understand, Matthias, that you might be able to offer a special discount to the Maverick show listeners. How can folks come to the event this year, attend it, see me and all these other people speak, and what kind of a special offer do you have? And whatever you say, we’re going to link it up in the show notes for this episode.

Matthias Zeitler: Excellent. So, for everyone on the Maverick show, we have a 10% discount on the tickets. It’s super easy to get it when you register your ticket. You just put Maverick Show into the promo code section and it takes 10% off the ticket.

Matt Bowles:  Awesome, man. That’s super, super great. We are going to link that up in the show notes. We’re going to put the link and the code and all that kind of stuff. So, folks, you can just go to one place at themaverickshow.com and there you will find the link to that as well as all the other stuff we discussed in the episode, including my interviews with some of the speakers that are going to be at Nomad Fest Bansco this year so that you can learn about some of them and get pretty excited because they are a powerhouse group and just super fun. Cool crowd, very good personal friends of mine. So, I’m super excited just for the social aspect of it and reuniting with all these amazing friends of mine, some of whom I have, I haven’t seen in quite a while. So, it’ll be a really awesome event. Matthias, any other tips for folks if they want to come to Bansko? Just as they’re thinking about logistics, accommodations, things like that, what should they be thinking about in terms of those types of things?

Matthias Zeitler: So I think most people that want to come to Nomad Fest should consider to stay here longer, right? So when you look at the logistics of the event, you have to travel here, you have to get a hotel room and basically for the same cost is coming just to Nomad Fest for a week. You can stay in Bansko for a month. So, if you rent an apartment, it’s kind of the same cost for one month compared to a hotel for one week. Travel is the same and then you really have the opportunity to connect either before the event with some people. So, we have invited a lot of the speakers already to come in June. So, a lot of speakers will be here earlier and then you will have them in a smaller group. And of course, if you stay after the event, you have opportunities to connect more with people that you met during Bansko Nomad Fest.

Matt Bowles:  I think that’s a great tip. I personally am going to come for a full month to Bansko in part also because I like to travel slowly and wherever I go, I like to stay for at least a month, but especially in this case because there’s going to be so many amazing people there. A lot of the speakers that I know are also coming for a month and so folks can just drop in and get some quality time with the amazing community that is going to be descending on Bansko. So again, we’ll link all that information up in the show notes and you can learn more about the Nomad Fest in Bansko and how you can attend and get your discount.

Matthias, let me ask you one more question and then we’ll move into The Lightning Round. When you think back on all of the travel that you’ve done, why at this point in your life do you continue to travel? What does travel mean to you?

Matthias Zeitler: I think my travel pattern have changed a lot. So initially I traveled just to explore the world. In the meantime, I have changed my travel patterns to go to specific places for specific reasons. For example, going to conferences, going to festivals, going to events or going for activities. And I think this is after you have seen a lot of places. I think this really keeps the excitement of travel. But you also need to have a specific reason why you go somewhere.

Matt Bowles:  Awesome. I love it. All right, Matthias, at this point, are you ready to move in to The Lightning Round?

Matthias Zeitler: I guess we will find out.

Matt Bowles:  Let’s do it.

Matt Bowles:  All right. What is one book that has significantly impacted you over the years you’d most probably recommend people check out?

Matthias Zeitler: Okay, there’s a super cool book I like. It’s called Invisible Women and it’s about the data bias in all the products that we design. It’s super interesting to read it. So, for example, how women are much more likely to be injured in a traffic accident because they’re smaller than men on average and cars are just not designed for women. And I think this is similar to what I need to do in the co-working space also like the height adjustable chairs and tables. And we are putting now the vegan milk on lower shelf spaces because people can’t reach up there. It’s a super interesting book to see where it’s like all these things that details take for granted but that create a problem for about 50% of the population. It’s called Invisible Women. Data Bias in a World designed for Men.

Matt Bowles:  All right, we are going to link that up in the show notes as well for sure. Matthias, what is one travel hack that you use that you can recommend to people?

Matthias Zeitler: So, I would recommend when you travel to always use the lounge. And of course, when I still had a corporate job, I had like an airline status card so I could always use a Lounge for free. But you can also just pay to use a lounge when you travel. And this makes airline travel so much more enjoyable. If you have a quiet space where you can just have a few drinks before you travel and hang out and have Internet and sit down instead of being at the gate with all the puzzle that’s going there around you. And then in the end if you buy a drink in an airport restaurant, it’s also a lot of money. So, I would recommend always buy the launch pass when you travel.

Matt Bowles:  Awesome. If you could have dinner with any one person who’s currently alive today that you’ve never met, who would you choose?

Matthias Zeitler: So, I would actually like to have dinner with Vladimir Putin because I would like to know what, what he really thinks, like why is he really in Ukraine? Who is he as a person? Is he really totally evil? Is he driven by something like what’s going on there? So, this is a big question in my mind is like why to invade another country? And I would like to ask him that.

Matt Bowles:  Knowing everything that you know now, if you could go back in time and give one piece of advice to your 18-year-old self, what would you say to 18-year-old Matthias?

Matthias Zeitler: I would tell Matthias to not take a job. So don’t look for this mainstream dream that you first you study and gain experience and get this high paying corporate job. I think I would tell my 18-year-old self to more explore my entrepreneurial side earlier.

Matt Bowles:  Awesome. All right, of all the countries that you have now been to 100 plus and many places within those countries, what are your top three favorite travel destinations that you would most recommend people check out.

Matthias Zeitler: So, I would recommend Roatan, which is an island off of Honduras, which is great for scuba diving. I think I would also recommend Costa Rica which is amazing location to do like a road trip through the country and explore the forest, the rainforest, that there’s volcanoes, the beaches. And I would also recommend the Aeolian Islands which are islands in coast of Sicily where you can go sailing. Like it’s a group, I don’t know how many islands, maybe 10 islands or so. Everyone has like a small restaurant, small hike, beaches, not a lot of tourists.

Matt Bowles:  I have been to the Aeolian Islands off the coast of Sicily. That is a great recommendation. I actually lived in Sicily for a month because I told you I like to live in places for at least a month. And I was based in Ortigia, which is the old city in Syracuse Cusa, which is just enchanting and amazing and I recommend it to everyone. But in traveling around also went up to Palermo and the west coast and Ariche and places like that and then went out to the Aeolian islands and they are truly spectacular. I can remember I went to the island of Liberi and just found this incredible wine shop with this like sommelier who was like this legend on the island. And you’re just there and they’re just giving you these wines and that you’ve never had before because they’re these really local Sicilian wines that you’ve never tried and they’re just pouring them for you and giving you all of this amazing stuff. I mean it was a really local and really special experience.

Alright Matthias, last question what are your top three bucket list destinations? These are places you’ve never been highest on your list, you’d most love to see.

Matthias Zeitler: So, I haven’t been to the Arctic. I think I would really like to see that what’s going on there with so few people and all the amazing nature. I have bought a Russian jeep and us a while ago, like a 40-year-old car. And I would like to travel Vladivostok where they built these cars to get like all the spare parts to see how we can get this thing back into mint condition. And I think the last location I would really like to see is Mars. So, to see like off planet, what is another planet like? And I feel some of these will stay on the bucket list for wild.

Matt Bowles:  Awesome. I love that. Alright, Matthias, I want you to let folks know how they can find you, connect with you, follow you on social media. Definitely learn more about all the stuff that you’re up to. How can they find out about Coworking Bansco and Coliving Bansco and all that good stuff. How do you want people to come into your world?

Matthias Zeitler: Okay. The good news is that our brands are very descriptive. So for Coworking Bansco we go to coworkingbansko.com for Bansko Nomad Fest. The URL is banskonomadfest.com and Coliving Bansco we have a website, colivingbansco.com we don’t have a lot of content on there yet. We use this for a Co-Living event that we did last weekend and very soon we will have information about the real estate project there and how to stay in the Co-Living space. Also, you can find me very easily. So, if you type Matthias Zeitler into Google, a lot of matches come up. You can connect with me on Facebook or LinkedIn. Totally up to you.

Matt Bowles: Awesome. We are going to link all of that up in the show notes. So just go to one place at themaverickshow.com there you will find all the websites, the social media handles, the links to all the books and everything else that we mentioned in this episode, and most importantly the link and the discount code to come to Bansko Nomad Fest to hang out with me and all the other amazing people that are going to be there. I’m going to go for a month so feel free to come and drop in and say hello and meet a lot of really amazing people. Matthias, thank you so much for coming on the show, man. This was great.

Matthias Zeitler: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Matt Bowles:  All right, good night, everybody.