INTRO: This is part two of my interview with Jimmy Naraine. If you have not yet listened to part one, I highly encourage you to go back and do that first. It provides some really important context for this episode. Part one was episode #162 of The Maverick Show. If you have already heard part one, then please enjoy the conclusion of my interview with Jimmy Naraine.

Matt Bowles: I want to ask you a little bit about how you approach some of your goals. Because when you put your mind to doing something, you seem to be able to figure out a way to do it at an exceptionally high level. Eventually. It’s always a journey, but eventually you get to an exceptionally high level. So, you speak on stages all over the world, all different continents, massive, huge events, huge audiences. And you’re often voted the top speaker at an event among professional speakers. You either headline speaker at this event, for example, that we were just at, you want to make courses, you’re going to figure out a way to be a spectacular educator. You want to be a public speaker; you’re going to figure out a way to be a spectacular public speaker. You’re going to learn a language, you’re going to figure out a way to speak that language really well, right? When you set a goal for yourself and you say, I am now going to do this, what is your process from that point when you set the goal to becoming the best at what it is that you want to do?

Jimmy Naraine: Okay, so first of all, I start with a vision. For me, vision is extremely important, right? So rather than just setting a goal, I’m going to become a speaker. I’m going to set up this business. I’m going to learn X, Y or Z. I like to create a vision that’s so compelling, it excites me so much that it’s almost like if I don’t accomplish, it’s I’m failing myself. I want to get so excited that it’s almost like there is no other way around. I have to go after it. So, I make my Vision very vivid. And then I promise to myself that I’m willing to do whatever it takes, right? So, I’m very good at doing scary things. Not because I’m not afraid. I understand what’s on the other side. So, when I was talking to those strangers on the streets in Spanish, I was afraid every single time. Sometimes some of the evenings, man, we are finishing the bottle now, right? I would have to finish the bottle by myself because otherwise I wouldn’t be able to go out there and I’ll put some music, you know, practice Spanish and try to rhyme in Spanish. And I would justify in my head, hey, buddy, you don’t have to go out there. You can just keep rhyming. This is learning Spanish. You don’t need to go there.

But then I would drink that extra glass of wine. I’m like, no, motherfucker, you’re going out. And I would literally, and I kid you not, I would sometimes feel physically do this. I would slap myself in the face. I would literally physically learn this from my friend John Luca. He would do that a lot, you know, I would physically slap myself in the face and go out there knowing that I may feel uncomfortable, but something beautiful will come out of it, right? So, the process, again, vision, super compelling vision. Then getting clear that you are willing to do whatever it takes and understanding that there will be some pain and discomfort in the process. But the more you do it, the more rewarding the experience will be, the more you will get out of it and try to deconstruct it. So rather than, it’s kind of what Tim Ferriss does, very similar process. Rather than trying to do everything by trial and error, I try to find people who have done it before.

And I like to dissect how they managed to do it, what worked out for them, what didn’t work out for them. And especially when I find people with similar stories to mine, it’s easier to calibrate. So, I combine all of those things and one more thing, man. Massive, imperfect action. So that story about speaking on my first stage after Himalayas, I went to Bangkok. I did a workshop. I was fucking terrified, man. Imagine three, four weeks in the Himalayas by yourself. You haven’t talked to human beings, you know. Well, you did, but from time to time in the mountains, you haven’t really been in a big crowd. Then you land in Bangkok, taxis everywhere, Tuk Tuks. It’s crazy, right? And suddenly you show up at a co working space and a bunch of people who want to learn. I think I did a three-hour workshop or something like that. I remember sweating. I don’t know what the hell was happening. But I got in front of those people, I started talking. I realized, oh, they are nodding their heads, they’re enjoying this. I’m like, you guys enjoying this? Oh, yeah, yeah, great. And I kept going. I realized after three hours, wow, I actually gave them a lot of value.

So, then what most people do, and I used to do that back in the day, is just saying, okay, cool, I’ve done this. Let me celebrate. Let me go out and just be happy. But I knew that if I don’t do it again soon, well, this will not give me anything. I have the momentum. I have to keep pushing the momentum. So, I feel like I got really good at creating the momentum and then forcefully pushing and building the momentum. So, then I would literally tell people, listen, I want to speak on stages. I really enjoy being in front of people. Are there any opportunities? What can I do? And whenever somebody said, oh, yeah, there is this university, you could speak there. Okay, hook me up, let’s do it. And I went to Romania soon after Bangkok, and I ended up speaking at three different places in three days. I did Toastmasters, one of those guest speeches for everyone at Toastmasters and Bucharest. Then I did a workshop for guys. And then I went to this law university, one after another. And when you do that, when you do free speeches in free days, there’s no way you cannot get better. There’s no way. It just becomes who you are.

Matt Bowles: I want to ask you also about your productivity techniques, the way you structure your day to be as productive as you are, to have the output that you have. And especially in the context of being a nomad, where you’re changing countries, you’re changing time zones, you’re moving around the world, you have all these other elements of your life that some people that live in one city don’t necessarily have. So, you add that on top of it. And I’m curious if you can share a little bit about what does your day structure look like? How are you as productive as you are, and how do you integrate that as you’re changing time zones and moving around the world?

Jimmy Naraine: So, let me focus on one element of this because I think this is probably fundamental here. So, a lot of people, you know, they have a very clear structure. They have their morning ritual; they know exactly what they’re going to do. They have the calendar. I personally, I don’t like structure a lot. I need some structure in my life. But I like a mixture of structure and chaos. However, the reason I can afford to live like this is because I’m very strong about my fundamentals. So, for example, people ask me about my morning ritual. I don’t have one specific one, but for me, I know that every morning I have to start a day proactively. Could be meditation, could be a workout, could be reviewing my vision. Could be a mixture of those things. It could be surfing and then, for example, reading or writing. But it has to be something that’s proactive, not reactive. Not checking social media, not checking messages, not getting sucked into this, the craziness of today’s world.

But you give some time to yourself, so I honor that. But I do it in variety of different ways. And in terms of the day and productivity, the way I see it, it’s all about leverage. It is all about leverage. I like to call it the breakthrough factor. You got to ask yourself, what is the breakthrough factor of whatever it is that I’m going to do? And I feel like a lot of people, they put too much importance on, okay, got to be disciplined to work for 10 hours right now I have to do this, I have to do that. And they keep getting busy just to feel like they are being productive without actually knocking off the things that can make all the difference. I’m not even talking about doing the things that can give a little bit more value to them, but I’m talking about the breakthrough things.

So, a good example would be, okay, let’s say we are here in Buenos Aires, right? I have a lot of work I could justify. Well, I can’t go to this one business gathering because I have so much work to do. But then the question, so here, what is the breakthrough factor here? What are the potential breakthroughs that will come from my regular work that I plan to do? Well, I’m going to do it. It’s important. I have to do it. But will there be a breakthrough? Probably not. What about that business gathering? Well, it happens that there is one person I really want to meet, and maybe we could do some type of partnership together. Is that a breakthrough? Hell, yes. Right? It is a breakthrough if I go there and I meet those people and perhaps I develop a partnership with that one person that’s going to bring me more results than me sitting for 30 days nonstop in my hotel room working. But you see, on the surface, when we look from the outside, you see a guy working his ass off at a desk, very versus someone drinking wine in a cool restaurant with a bunch of people.

So, the society would say, well, the first guy is more productive. He’s clearly working hard. But it’s not just about working hard. And look, I love to work hard. I do those sessions where I work for 15 hours in a row. I love those sometimes, but I feel like oftentimes it’s easy for us to justify just being extremely busy because we want to have that illusion that we are making things happen. Because in reality, we know that there are other things that are a bit more outside of the box that are actually more uncomfortable. And they’re either more uncomfortable because they’re literally anxiety provoking or they seem too relaxed. So, you think you are lazy. You know what I mean?

Matt Bowles: Of course, yeah. It’s about discernment, right? The most effective entrepreneurs are the ones that are able to discern and choose and decide what the most impactful things are going to be. Because I feel like a lot of people do a lot of stuff and they might work really hard and spend a lot of time, but if it’s not time on the most impactful stuff, they’re going to be further and further and further behind the people that might even be spending less total time. But they’re able to choose and see and envision and discern which specific things are going to move the needle the most and make those choices.

Jimmy Naraine: 100%. And it’s, it’s an art. And it’s not easy to get into that mindset, but I feel like the moment you do it, moment you, you realize that it’s all about leverage. The moment you realize that whenever you do, wanting it automatically means that you just cannot physically do another thing. So, once you realize that, you start looking at your time through a completely different lens. So, for example, like nowadays I get all types of offers, right? People say, hey, do you want to help us with this project or do you want to do coaching? I’ll pay you for the coaching. And when you look at it on the surface, it feels like, oh, that’s great, make some extra money. But I always look at it in the context of, okay, how much extra headache will this give me? But also, the opportunity cost of doing that one thing. So, if I do this, if I spend, say, 10 extra hours on this one project, what am I not spending my time on?

And it could be both business but also personal, right? If you have a family, it could be something as simple as, well, I’ll make more money and it’s a good project, but I have less time with my kids or with my spouse, or it could Be as simple as, well, if I do this, I’ll make more money, but I won’t have enough time to be in my own head thinking for myself, doing adventures like, for example, going to the Himalayas, where you can rediscover yourself. Because when you really think about it, the adventure I told you about, the Annapurna Circuit, that was the single most productive trip, probably, of my life. I mean, really think about it, right? So now I’m at a stage where I spoke. Probably over a hundred different stages all over the world, all types of different stages. It all goes back to that situation, that trek, when I needed to spend enough time by myself to realize that that was the bottleneck in my life. That was one of those things that was holding me back. And I realized, okay, I have to go out there and I have to speak on stages. I have to take massive action.

If not for that trip, I’m not sure if I would even be here right now. Because, man, I’m telling you, okay, Vulnerability. I was talking about vulnerability. Hey, here you go. I was so fucking scared that people find me out, that I would find excuses for missing opportunities. Like, people tell me, hey, man, we want to interview you, or we want to get you on a stage to speak to our audience. And because I knew that this perceived brand was much bigger than how I felt inside, I felt like, what if I don’t live up to that image? I would find reasons to say no. I wasn’t even aware of it. Subconsciously I knew, but consciously, I didn’t even know what I was doing. I literally tell people, well, sounds like a great opportunity, man. I’m not sure if I can do it because I’m traveling a lot. I have other things going on.

And even though people would be the same city, but I would even book flights elsewhere and rationalize. Well, I always wanted to go surfing in Bali, so I’m actually leaving in three days, so there’s not enough time. I would sabotage myself, right? So again, going back to productivity and the breakthrough factor. If I didn’t go to the Himalayas, if I didn’t have that breakthrough, my life would be completely different. Who knows? Maybe I would still. Maybe I still would be running away from those responsibilities and going out there and putting myself out there.

Matt Bowles: Such an amazing testament to travel and the power of travel and how transformative it can potentially be. Let me ask you this, Jimmy. At this point in your life, why do you continue to travel? What does travel mean to you?

Jimmy Naraine: I feel like, for me, it’s just this feeling of the flow. When you have stale water, when water is in one place, it can get dirty. And when the water is free flowing, it’s crispy, it’s clean, it’s fresh. And I just feel like there’s so many hidden blessings from going out there and exploring the world. You just never know. And I feel like it’s one of those things that keeps me on my toes. And to give an example, during COVID at the beginning, they said, hey, we’re going to be closing borders. So, I knew I had to find a base. And because my girlfriend, she was in Germany, I’m like, well, this is the natural place to go. And I was in a lockdown with her for a few months. And I really enjoyed it. I actually enjoyed the newness of it. That was in itself an adventure for me. For most people, it was just being locked in a flat. But for me, that was not normal. It wasn’t normal for me to have one, a dress. And man, for the first time in my life, I watched Netflix 2020. First time in my life, I watched Netflix. First time in my life, I actually ordered from Amazon. My girlfriend was always laughing. She’s like, you are like this troglodyte, like this, this caveman, like, knuckle dragger, right? She calls me the knuckle dragger because I would always buy stuff in normal shops. And then I realized, well, you can actually order on Amazon. That’s crazy.

So anyhow, long story short, after a few months on a lockdown, I got very comfortable. And I remember that I was thinking about traveling to new places, and I started getting those weird thoughts. And I realized that, wow, in the past, I would say yes right away to the opportunity of, for example, flying a small plane in Nepal to go to Lukla, actually probably the most dangerous airport in the world, or heading to the jungles of Brazil or Colombia. I would just say, yes, let’s do it, or going to Mexico City. But now, just a few months into a lockdown, I found myself feeling a bit, huh. Do I want to take a risk? Is it necessary? I mean, I’ve seen all those places. I can just go to the Canary Arts. I have my beautiful girl with me. We can cuddle up, watch some Netflix, vicariously live through fucking whoever. You know, Harvey from the suits or whatever. And I’m like, why go anywhere? And I hated it, man. That inner voice, I hated it. And I realized, no, I don’t want that. I don’t want to become that person. And then eventually, you know, in the summer they opened up the borders, I got back into my traveling mode. That’s what it took, right? You back in the water, you feel like fish in that water.

But what I’m trying to say is, I think travel, it keeps you on your toes. It teaches you about the appreciation for life. It gives you so many hidden blessings, blessings that you couldn’t have expected otherwise. Things come to you from the most unexpected places. It makes you humble. It also gives you confidence. It’s one of those paradoxes that on the one hand, you become more confident when you travel, but you also become more humble. Here in Buenos Aires, right? You go, you see so many people who struggle. The other night, I was coming back from the center. I see people, you know, in the trash bin. They’re trying to pull out some food. And I’m like, I stopped and I had a bunch of bananas, and I just shared some food. But I’m thinking, wow, like, those people are looking for the food in the bin. I have all those pesos in my pocket. It just puts things in perspective. It pushes you to reevaluate what is really important. And I think a lot of people in the world need that. A lot of people need to change their frame of reference. But you feel me, right? Traveling, I honestly feel like, is the best university out there. And no matter how much you travel, no matter how much experience you have, you always keep learning.

Matt Bowles: Yeah, 100%, man. I agree with that. I also want to ask you about the courses that you teach and your choice to go in the direction to become an educator, to become an instructor. It strikes me that your formula is you want to do something for yourself. You set a goal; you achieve it at an extremely high level. And then once you’ve achieved it, you then teach other people how to do it, and you explain to those other people, right? I mean, of your content that I have watched, it’s basically this formula you explain to these other people. I was once this person who had extremely high social anxiety or extreme fear about public speaking, or I was extremely bad or trepid or concerned about this. I then set a goal, and then I then achieved the ability to do this at an extremely high level.

So, wherever you are on that continuum, even if you’re at where I started, you can potentially follow this formula and learn to become great at this. And here are the things that I did, and you can learn from me. And you’ve just sort of done this with all of these different courses in all of these different areas of your life. You go through a journey for yourself, you achieve a goal, and then you turn around and you teach other people how to do what you did with the lessons that you learned from that. And I think it’s amazing, first of all, that you’re doing that. And I’m wondering if you can talk a little bit about that, about your choice to do that, because not everybody does that. There’s plenty of people that do stuff and achieve stuff and then keep it all to themselves. Right? But can you talk a little bit about why you chose to do that? Sort of your mission, your passion, and your choice to become an educator?

Jimmy Naraine: Definitely. So, I did this workshop back in the day, wasn’t. I wasn’t leading it, I was participating. And this guy said, we went for this exercise. What were we missing when we were kids, right? What were the needs that we were missing? And I realized that for me, even though I had a very loving family, I missed mentorship, right? My parents were working very hard. Medical doctors barely making ends meet. You know, back in Poland, medical doctor was making so little money that we lived in this flat with cockroaches. You know, didn’t have too much. So, I didn’t have much mentorship. And also, my teachers, I shared with you a story of one of the teachers, right? Trying to dissuade me from pursuing my dreams. And it’s my way or no way. So, I always felt like this outsider without a mentor. That’s how I felt by my entire childhood and teenage years. Like, I felt like I’m by myself. I got to figure this out by myself.

So, when I did that workshop, the trainer said, well, usually what you were missing in your life when you were younger, that’s what you want to give to other people. And I’m like, wow, it makes perfect sense. I didn’t have the mentorship. Now I want to become a mentor. And at some point, I realized, rather than talking to each person one by one, why don’t I make some videos? Why don’t I sell scale it, right? I was always thinking, how can I hack this system? We talked about it before, right? Why talk to one person if you can talk to a hundred or a thousand people? So, I got this really basic video camera. Actually, I couldn’t afford a camera. So, my girlfriend back then, she bought me this $100 camera for Christmas. Bless her. If you are listening, she was Hungarian. Her name is Sheila. If you’re listening to this, I got to say, kissonam kaesanam chiluka. Seriously, this was Hungarian. That probably changed my life to a high extent, because with that camera, I didn’t have a microphone. It was just one of those flip cameras. I started making videos and initially I thought, okay, I’m just going to make videos and I’m going to focus on other things, you know.

In the meantime, I worked for Goldman Sachs. I did Allianz before in Alliance. I was an entrepreneur within a company because I hired my own people. So, I did a lot of different things. And I thought, well, I’m going to be this big businessman. But when I started making videos for YouTube, I realized people are watching those videos and no one is laughing and people are getting a lot of value from them. And when that happens, you start thinking, right, on the one hand, you have this pressure in your head that you want to become this successful business guy. You want to own a big company, or you want to become the MD in a big bank because you want to get all of that validation. But then you realize, okay, but would that make me happy? Do I really want to do that? Would that allow me to travel and expand, explore and have a sense of contribution? Not really. I would make money, but what would I do with that money? I would travel. I would literally spend all my money traveling. So, I figured, why not do something that would allow me to travel anyway and then use my skills and help other people? I’m like, holy shit. Things are just coming together.

People are watching my videos. People clearly resonate with what I’m talking about. Why not take it to the next level? So, I quit that job. Didn’t have much savings, had maybe one and a half K, 2000, maybe euros in my bank account. Maybe a bunch of scraps. My pocket didn’t have much money, right? So same week, I quit the relationship after three years. Okay, three years of relationship. At that stage, that was the biggest relationship I ever had. I even thought about at some point marrying the girl, but we were not aligned. And the third thing, I also moved out of Budapest. That was in Budapest. So, imagine within one week, three major life decisions. You move out from a country, you quit your job and you quit a relationship. And where do you go? Well, I went back to my parents. I figured good opportunity to see them again. But also, I don’t have to pay for accommodation there. Makes sense, right? So at least I can. My money can go, I don’t say a long way, can go a little bit longer. And I realized that I want to give this online education a shot, like a real shot. But in order to do it, I can’t just use this hundred-dollar camera, I have to take it to the next level.

So, I found a movie crew and I told them initially, I said, listen guys, I can pay you. I think I paid him for like 1 1/2-hour session. I said, I can’t really afford more than that. Let’s do one hour and a half and then maybe, maybe later we can do some more. They said, okay. Agreed on the sum. We met in the studio. I really prepped. I prepped like prep the entire weekend. I was very stressed beforehand because I knew that was my shot. I showed up in the studio and we start recording, right? And say, okay, action. And I said, hi, my name is Jimmy Naraine. And then I stop. I’m like, I’m choking up. I can do it. I’m like, sorry, guys, I need to do it again. Few deep breaths, okay? Hi. Okay, sorry. Can we do it again? Hi, everyone. No. And I just keep going like this. I make a bunch of mistakes and I feel utterly uncomfortable. But at some point, I’m like, guys, I need a few minutes, a few deep breaths. And I try to get in touch with why I’m doing what I’m doing. What do I want to accomplish here?

I realized that it’s not about me. I’m actually creating a course about building confidence. I want to help people with social anxiety. I want to help people like me. People who are like the way I used to be. People who afraid to talk to the person of the opposite sex. People who are afraid to get on stage or talk to a group of people. These are the people I want to help. And once I got in touch with that, took a few deep breaths, I’m like, fuck it, I’m just going to do it. The cameras are rolling. I made that video and then I made another one and another one. And at some point, those guys, they said to me, hey man, we want to talk to you. We normally don’t listen to what people are talking about when we film them. We just, we kind of just like checking our phones and not giving a shit.

But what you talking about? Like, that’s some powerful stuff. Like, this is some, some really good stuff. Maybe you should work together. And I’m like, wow. And that was the moment when I could sense something shifting in my life. And we decided, okay, because I cannot pay you. We’re going to make a bet. We’re going to do a little deal like in a casino, right? We are going into this together. I’m not going to pay you, but I will give you a percentage of the profits. So whatever we create together, if it bumps, well, we all have nice experience. We got to know each other. We all lose. If it makes a shit ton of money, you get a percentage and there’s no limit to how much you can make. And they said, yes, let’s do it. And long story short, I mean, it’s been eight years. We still work together on a lot of projects. It was crazy, man.

Matt Bowles: That’s amazing.

Jimmy Naraine: But I need to add something, right? It sounds like one of those happy stories. Oh, great. From breakup and quitting the job to now making it big. I didn’t make it big right away. We built the first course, first month, made decent money. I actually couldn’t believe that I was even making money online. The first time you make money online, something clicks in your brain. It’s almost like your old self dies and you are reborn. It’s hard to even grasp that you are making money out of thin air. You kind of grasp that you are actually helping somebody because the money comes from the online space. That was eight years ago. That’s a long time ago, right? So, it was surreal. But then the second month I made maybe 20% of what I made the first month. And then the third month I made just a little bit more and then a little bit more. Even though we build more products. So, you have to put yourself in my shoes. You start with a bang, but then you’re not doing that well and you barely making money and start questioning yourself and getting offers.

People tell you, hey, we are looking for someone in my company. Maybe you can work with us. Because I had very good cv, right? I mean, Allianz, Goldman Sachs in Allianz, managing a team at age of 18, 19 years old. So, my CV was pretty sick. So, I could do a lot of things. So, you have temptations. People tell you, hey, forget about that thing. Those videos are cool, you can do it as a side thing, but come work for us. And I have to say, man, I was very close from giving up because things were going really slowly. But just as I got to the point where I thought about giving up, I called my crew and I said, guys, we’ve been too lazy, we haven’t done enough. Let’s do another product, let’s push it, let’s give it our all and see what happens. And then we did that, we filmed some more, we gave it our all. And the next thing you know, the breakthrough, bam. My first thousand-dollar month, first 3K and then well beyond that. And it was just incredible because literally exactly one Year after I quit my relationship, I quit my job.

And by the way, I was devastated. I was a wreck of a human being. I cried like a little baby trying to get back with my girlfriend, man. Like, I was a wreck. That was the lowest point of my entire life. It was crazy how low I went. I was hating myself and hating reality. So, imagine you are there and you quit that relationship. That’s how you feel. And you quit your job, and you don’t know what the hell you’re going to do. And 12 months later, you find yourself traveling through Southeast Asia making more money than you made in Goldman Sachs. Actually, way more money from passive income. And you’re planning your next adventure in Cambodia, and you have friends from all over the world, and you just can’t fucking believe what’s happening to you. And you realize that you are this close from giving up, and now you’re living this life. And this is just the beginning, because now you understand the game. This is just the beginning. It’s crazy, man. Crazy journey.

Matt Bowles: That’s amazing. So let me ask you this about the courses. There are a lot of people that teach these courses. The number of instructors just on a platform like Udemy is enormous. Yeah. How do you have 265,000 thousand students, 45,000 five-star reviews? Can you talk about the leverage points, the points of differentiation that bring your courses and you as an instructor up to the level that you are? I mean, I feel this is typical. Like, you know, we’ve been talking about the different things where you set a goal and you try to achieve it, and you want to be the. The best of the best, right?

Jimmy Naraine: Yeah.

Matt Bowles: And so, in the realm of online courses, for people that are interested maybe in getting into that space, I mean, they’ve developed a level of expertise in something, they’ve achieved something, and they now want to teach other people about it. If they want to produce an online course, let’s say, on a platform like Udemy, what is the strategy for breaking through all of the courses that are available and really achieving a high level of success on that platform?

Jimmy Naraine: Momentum. Got to create the momentum. And once you have it, you got to keep pushing it, you know, the merry go round, you know?

Matt Bowles: Yeah. How did you do that with yours, for example? Like, what are some techniques for creating that momentum?

Jimmy Naraine: So, the times are different now, right? I mean, I started eight years ago, was obviously very different back then, but certain rules still apply. So, I just got obsessed. I didn’t just publish one course. I published the first one that was January. Then I Published the second one February. Then I published another one. I think that was April. Then I published another one in June or July. I published having five or six different courses within the first year. And these were all highly produced courses, you know, proper video crew. Some of them were made in exotic locations as well. I really tried to push myself to do it. But what I’m trying to say is the most important thing is to get so obsessed and to create such a work ethic that when your competition looks at you, they just start sweating. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that they can just release a half assed course, put it out there, and just because it’s out there, people will come, but they don’t realize that the marketplace is huge. And yes, there are a lot of students out there, but there’s also a lot of competition, right?

So, if you just release a course hoping someone will come, yes, some people will come, but you will not be a huge success. What you want to do is you want to get obsessed. You want to take massive imperfect action; you want to go after it. And then once you release your course, you want to keep pushing, you want to build new courses, and then you want to take your existing audience and funnel it into your new courses. But also, you want to keep improving your existing courses, you want to keep marketing them. The mistake a lot of people make is that they just leave things to kind of flow. They think it’s like this river. You put it in there, it’s going to flow by itself. No, it probably will end up getting washed up somewhere. That’s what usually happens, right? Another thing is that you have to figure out specifically what is your expertise and what is your target audience. What is your customer avatar? You have to know exactly what is your audience and what specific problem you’re solving for that audience.

A lot of people fall into this trap of trying to teach everyone everything. So, for example, you know, let’s say that you teach people. Let’s say you teach people about charisma. I’m making this up. This is a random example. Let’s say you teach people about charisma. Maybe used to be super emotionally flat and now you became this really confident and charismatic person. Well, if you try to teach every single person about charisma, you probably won’t attract that many people because whenever they see your landing page, they will not feel like you are speaking specifically to them. On the other hand, when you teach charisma, for example, in the context of business, or you teach charisma specifically for social Life, you make it more specific. Now you are narrowing your audience. So, when people see your course, when they see your trailer, they see your landing page, they feel like you are speaking directly to them. You see, this is what you want to create. You want to create a situation where anybody who sees your landing page has a perception that you are speaking directly to them.

Imagine, let’s say that I’m teaching a course about confidence, specifically in the context of public speaking. Imagine that you’re seeing a trailer that says, hey, do you want to become a great public speaker? It is possible. In this course, I’m going to teach you how to be more charismatic, how to be more confident, how to be this and that, blah. Do you feel like this course is for you? Probably not. But what if you see a trailer that says, hey, do you have those moments when lack of confidence and anxiety prevent you from taking important actions? You know you want to do something; you want to get on that stage, you want to speak up in front of a group of people, but because you are an introvert and because you get anxious, something is holding you back and you can’t get yourself to do it. And when you don’t do it, you feel terrible afterwards and you hate yourself. And then later on, when you have another opportunity, you lose it because you feel even more fear. Do you have those moments? Well, if you do, then I’m here to tell you that I know how you feel, because I used to be just like that. And when you see this trailer now, you feel like, huh, this motherfucker is talking directly to me, right? So, if you struggle with anxiety, if you want to become more confident, the context of presenting, you hear this trailer, now, you know this guy is talking directly to me. You build this emotional connection and you do it for positioning. You have to do your homework.

And before you create any content, you have to ask yourself again, what are the types of people I want to serve? What is my target audience? What is my customer avatar? Ideally, you want to create a customer avatar. You give that person a name, characteristics, and then you decide exactly what benefit you will give them, what pain points you will solve. And when you do that, and you create content tailored to that group of people and you market it strategically to those people and you make it the best course that out there. And by the way, you can make it the best by checking your competition, by studying them, by seeing what is missing, what they did well, what you could improve on. If you do all of those things, you release a course, you build the momentum, you spread the word, you try to put it in front of everyone, you will succeed. There is no doubt about it. Just most people are not willing to do what it takes.

Matt Bowles: Can you talk a little bit about the marketing strategy? So, let’s say for example, that there’s somebody that does what you are advising, right? They research their competition. They say, okay, these are the courses that I see that are out there. This is what I think I can do better and I can add value and I’m going to put the effort in to get the production quality, to get the content quality, to really make the best course that’s out there on this. And furthermore, I’m going to niche down. I’m going to take Jimmy’s advice. I’m going to go very specifically niche. I’m going to speak to a particular target segment, customer avatar. That is my niche and I’m going to do that. Well, you can’t just press do that and then press publish and then hope that people find it, right? You have to market that and you have to alert people to, hey, this is the best course in this category and this is the niche that it’s for and get it in front of that niche, right? So, what are your suggestions? If somebody’s willing to put in that work and make that quality of a course exactly as you’ve described it, what then is the marketing technique for putting it in front of the right segment and building that momentum?

Jimmy Naraine: It depends which platform you’re using. Okay, so first of all, let me backtrack. Let me tell you about different platforms. So Udemy is one of them. Udemy is, is one of those platforms that have a lot of volume. It has marketplace, but it doesn’t give you full control over your courses, right? So, when you publish something, you have access to a lot of different people, but you can’t fully control your price. Even though you set your listing price, they can always discount it. They run a ton of promotions. You can’t retain all the email addresses directly that you get from your students. You cannot do that. So, there are limitations. But the good thing is that you get access to a big audience right away. But then also you have those other platforms that don’t have a marketplace, but they give you more control, like for example, Kajabi, Thinkific and Teachable. So those platforms give you a lot of control.

You set your price, you set your own discounts, you retain the emails of your students, but there is no marketplace. Okay, so if you don’t have an audience, if you’re just Getting started, you don’t know what the hell you are doing. Udemy is a good place to start because you get to tap into their audience right from the beginning. The infrastructure is super easy. It’s very easy to build a course there and you know that at least you will get some traction. But then if you have an audience, then obviously you can use platform like Thinkific, Kajabi and Teachable. There are many others where again, they give you more power, they give you more control, but they don’t have a marketplace. But if you have an audience, you don’t need that marketplace. You can design email marketing strategies that will promote your course to your audience. Okay, so having said that, let’s focus on Udemy. If you want to get started on Udemy because you don’t have an audience and you want to build it up, what I would say is your marketing starts the moment you have an idea of building a course. So, you see a lot of people make a mistake of deciding, okay, I’m going to build a course.

So, they start scribbling things down, they start working on the content. Eventually they schedule their filming, they film the course, they release it and that’s it. They do a little bit of marketing and then they leave it by itself. If you do it, nothing’s ever going to work out. What you want to do is the moment you decide, okay, I’m going to release a Udemy course. That’s when you start marketing. That’s when you start building the foundation. So, as you are creating content for Udemy, you are also creating content for social media. You start building your email list, right? For example, you build up a couple of videos that you give away for free. You do it because, first of all, you want to entice people to you. You want to build up your audience, you want to give people some value, but also you want to learn what people like and what people dislike. You get all of that feedback and you can use it while you’re building the actual course. Okay, so this is very important. So, you’re doing all of that. You’re building your foundation on social media.

Before you release your course, you want to activate your inner circle. So specifically, you want to create a list of people who are your friends, your family members, your fans, if you have some fans, followers, you want to create a list and you want to let those people know that you are about to release a course. You want to tell them what is the exact date and what you want to do. And there are different ways to go about it. I just don’t want to over complicate it here because we have limited time and we literally went through the entire bottle of wine. I mean, literally. I wish you guys could see. So, okay, what I recommend you to do is I recommend that you create two different coupon codes for your courses. You create free access coupons, and you create discounted coupons. And what you do is, once you have a list of your inner circle, you tell them, listen, I’m going to be launching a course in seven days from now. It’s about topic X, Y and Z. I really feel like you will enjoy it. I put a lot of effort into it and frankly, I’m a bit stressed because it’s the first time I’m launching a course. I really gave it my all. I invest a lot of money, time, effort, and energy. I would really appreciate your support, and I feel like it’s going to help you in some way.

And what you can tell people is you can literally tell them that, look, here are two coupon codes. One is free, one is, let’s say, 15 bucks. Use whichever you feel like. If you really feel like this course can give you value, if you feel like you fall within the target audience and you can actually get something out of it, I would appreciate if you actually purchase it for $15, it will give me some traction, it will make me at least some money so I build that momentum. But at the same time, if you don’t feel like you will benefit from this course, maybe you’re not in the target audience, but you are my friend and you want to help, feel free to use the free coupon code. And I would really appreciate if you could just watch at least some of the videos and give me some feedback. And at some point, Udemy will ask you for your official rating. And if you could do that, that’s going to help me so much. Because as you know, nobody wants to be the first person buying anything unless it’s an Apple product, right? When you see a course with zero ratings and zero students, you don’t want to buy.

So anyhow, you don’t want to use the exact words I just used right now. I mean, you definitely want to make it a bit more concise. But what I’m trying to say is you want to communicate to people that you would appreciate their help. You want to give them something as well. You want to give them some value. And if you reach out to people like this, at least some of them will help you. And here’s the thing. Even if just 10 of those people End up taking your course. Now you have the momentum, you have your early ratings, you have your students on board. So, when people on Udemy, they’re looking for courses, when they see your course, they no longer see just that title and zero ratings and zero students. Now they see the course made by so and so that has perhaps eight five-star ratings and 27 students. Now that’s social proof, that’s credibility.

That may propel them to buy the course right away. And that creates the snowball effect. But the tricky thing is you got to keep working at it. You can’t just send a mass email saying, hey friends, can you please help me? You don’t want to do that, right? You don’t just focus on yourself. You want to send separate emails. Ideally, you want to send audio messages or even better, call people up and just be very personal and just tell them why this means so much to you and how you can help them. If you do that, your social circle will stand behind you and they will help you to build up that momentum. Does it make sense?

Matt Bowles: It makes total sense. And one of the things that I asked you, Jimmy, before we started this interview was if you would be willing to offer my audience a free piece of your content. Which I wanted to do for two reasons. One is for people that are actually interested in creating courses so they can see what a Jimmy Naraine course looks like on the inside for free. What does a best-selling course look like? A type of course that can get hundreds of thousands of students and tens of thousands of five-star reviews. What does that actually look like? So, they can see it. And the other is for people that actually want to learn what you have to teach in terms of how to develop confidence and how to develop self-esteem and how to speak from the stage and how to be productive and all of those things that you teach for people that are interested in learning those on a deeper level through your courses. I asked you if you’d be willing to offer something to my audience for free and you said that you would, which was very sweet of you.

Jimmy Naraine: My pleasure.

Matt Bowles: For people that want to check out a Free Jimmy Naraine Course, how can they get that?

Jimmy Naraine: First of all, I’m very happy to do it, especially after the bottle of wine. I mean, I’m happy to do it.

Matt Bowles: I might have offered him some something in exchange for the free course, like a really nice bottle of Malbec.

Jimmy Naraine: Man, I got to tell you, after this, after this mild bake that I’m looking at right now, I’m happy to do anything. So, I think we’re going to link it up on your page.

Matt Bowles: Put it in the show notes.

Jimmy Naraine: It’s hosted on Teachable. The only thing you have to do is you have to use the code Maverick Free. It’s going to show you the price. You have to just paste the code and you can enter the course for free. Now it’s interesting what you said, you said that you want to show people what some of those best-selling courses have that make them bestseller. What you’re going to notice in this course is that I’m not upselling you anything. So, when you do this course, I believe it’s two hours of content about life, hacking about all types of different things. And you will notice that each video is a content video. And I feel like this is one of the keys. You know, people nowadays are tired of, of Internet marketers just promising you what they’re going to teach you for the first one hour, then almost giving it to you, and then without giving it to you actually they tell you, hey, well if you want to learn about X, Y and Z, you can join my coaching program or whatever it is, right? Or buy this other course.

And I feel like people are really sick and tired of that. It’s just almost like it makes people feel as if the other person thinks they are stupid. So that’s the first lesson you will learn by watching that course, that there are no upsells. You basically watch the course from the beginning till the end. You get a lot of value. And my belief is that if you give people enough value, they won’t forget you, right? If you give people enough value, don’t have to upsell. Same thing applies to stages. We talked about speaking on stages. The reality is that a lot of people who try to upsell from stages, they’re shooting themselves into food because nobody feels it’s justified to buy from them. If you haven’t delivered enough value from a stage, why would I pay you the money? It doesn’t make any sense. So, I always believe in get out there, over, deliver, exceed expectations. And when you do that, you don’t actually have to tell people what to do. They are the ones seeking you out. So that’s what you’re going to learn.

And there’s also another lesson in it that just the way I’m giving you free access to this course, you can do exactly the same thing with your content so you don’t have to build up a huge masterclass that you’re going to be selling for $200 and feel all this pressure that it has to have hours of videos and tremendously made content with a movie crew from five different angles. You don’t have to do that. That’s a lot of pressure. What you can do is you can take your expertise and you can ask yourself, okay, if I could go back in time and if I could teach my younger self about this topic, what would I teach that person? And you can develop a very basic yet powerful curriculum that’s between, say, 40 to 60 minutes. And you could record a free course that you literally give away to people for free, or you sell it, but you kind of make an agreement, unwritten agreement with yourself, that you are happy to give it away to different groups of people. For example, like now, right, you do a podcast with somebody, you are happy to give it away for free.

You build that course; you deliver as much value as possible. You pretend in your head that you are charging for it just so you can do a better job, and then you give it away for free. If you do that, you will not make any money, but you will gain audience. You will learn how to build courses, you will get your feet wet, essentially. You will learn about the process, you’ll become a better teacher, you will get to know your topic better, and you’ll get a lot of appreciation and love from other people. So then when eventually you want to build something that you want to sell, you will have that foundation. You will have an audience that will be waiting for you to release your premium course.

Matt Bowles: Awesome. We are going to link up the Free Jimmy Naraine Course in the show notes. So, to get that, just go to themaverickshow.com and go to the show notes. For this episode, we’re going to have the link as well as the coupon code to get it absolutely for free. I have taken the course myself. I’ve gone through the content, extremely high value content, totally free for you, The Maverick Show listeners. So, make sure you go there and check it out. And at this point, Jimmy, are you ready to move in to The Lightning Round?

Jimmy Naraine: Let’s do it, bro. Let’s do it.

Matt Bowles: Let’s do it.

Jimmy Naraine: Let’s do it.

Matt Bowles: All right. What is one book that has significantly influenced you over the years you’d most recommend people check out?

Jimmy Naraine: The first one that comes to mind is The 4-Hour Workweek for those people who want to become nomads, specifically, just because it’s referred to as the bible of digital nomads, I feel like a lot of the concepts discussed in that book are still relevant. Tim Ferriss did an incredible job of making it fun to read, making it very compelling. So, I would say get that book. Now for those of you listening to this, if you struggle with procrastination, especially in terms of your creativity, you know, if you like there’s something in you and you want to put it out there, but you can’t get yourself to do it. Steven Pressfield, that’s the answer. Just read Steven Pressfield. Specifically, The War of Art. That’s something. And I would say if you struggle with pushing yourself, perhaps physically, you want to change your health, you want to go out there, make shit happen and you want to perhaps lose weight or you want to gain weight, but you can’t find the power, the course to do it. Read David Goggins; Can’t Hurt Me. You read that book. That book is like mental steroids for you. You’re going to read that book or listen to it and you’re going to feel like you want to go out there and just nail it. And finally, for those of you who want to understand the current reality of the world, what’s happening, but also understand the past and then kind of reconcile all of that with the potential future for human beings. Yuval Noah Harari does the guy, he wrote the Sapiens, he wrote Homo Deus, and He recently wrote 21 Lessons for the 21st Century. So, these books are about the past, the present and the future. I keep rereading those books because when you read them you will see yourself. There’s so much wisdom in there. He doesn’t impose on you. He gives you ideas that propel you to think. And those books will make you understand the world better.

Matt Bowles: Awesome. We are going to link all of those up in the show notes as well as the Will Smith book that you said you’re reading right now.

Jimmy Naraine: Incredible audio. The audio version, man, it’s just beautiful.

Matt Bowles: That’s awesome, man. We’re going to link all of that up in the show notes so you can go and find the links at themaverickshow.com. Jimmy, who is one person currently alive today that you’ve never met that you’d most love to have dinner with just you and that person for an evening of dinner and conversation.

Jimmy Naraine: Two people come to mind right away. Tony Robbins and Tim Ferriss. I think the reason is that, you know, I met a lot of people in my life that I admire and I actually ended up meeting them in person and some of them becoming friends with. But we all have our heroes that change the way we view reality. So, for example, when I met Vishen Lakhiani from Mind Value, right? I mean, I knew he was doing some incredible things and he’s doing some really epic stuff now. But there wasn’t that element of being a fanboy and you know what I mean? So, we met, we became friends, now we are buddies. It’s different type of situation. And there are other examples of people like this that I met. However, Tim Ferriss, you know, Tim Ferriss is one of those people that he wrote the Bible. I mean, he wrote The 4-Hour Workweek. So, I’ve been kind of reflecting and I realized that, you know, you could put me in a room with Will Smith or Mark Cuban or people like that and I would talk to them and it would be great and I would enjoy it, right? You put me in a room with Tim Ferriss or Tony Robbins. I would love to talk to them. But it’s almost like, wow, there’s so much to say. It’s almost like, I’m sure you can resonate with this, Matt. It’s almost like, man, I read your book and I resonated so much and that book changed the course of my entire life. It’s almost like there’s so many things to share where you don’t even know where to start, right?

Matt Bowles: And it’s like you personally impacted me type of thing, right?

Jimmy Naraine: Exactly.

Matt Bowles: The 4-Hour Workweek, like for me as well, right? I got fired from my job at the beginning of 2007. I made the decision on that day that I was going to figure out how to start my own business, having no experience in entrepreneurship at all. So, I said, well, I don’t know how to start a business. So, I’m going to drive to the bookstore. I was in Los Angeles and I’m going to start reading books on how to start a business.

Jimmy Naraine: Wow, what a timing.

Matt Bowles: So, I go into the Barnes and Noble at the Grove for anybody that knows LA every single day. And I just drove there and I would order an espresso at the coffee shop and I would sit there reading the books. I didn’t buy the books because I was unemployed. I would just sit there reading them. But each day my ritual would be I would go in and the first thing I would do, I’d look at the new business book section, right? And then I would decide what book am I going to read that day. I would just sit in the bookstore in the Barnes and normally read it. I would sit there all day. And one day in 2007, I walk in There’s a brand-new book on the business bookshelf, and it’s called The 4-Hour Workweek by some guy that nobody had ever heard of called Timothy Ferriss. I read the back of the book. I said, that’s the one I’m reading today. I read through the book and I said, that’s what I’m doing. I read it the day it came out, and it fundamentally transformed my entire trajectory of my life, of everything. Right? And so, I totally feel you on that, where, like, if you had dinner with someone like that and you could say you personally, your work, your book, the words that you wrote on that page had this impact on my life and fundamentally change the trajectory. It’s a totally different conversation.

Jimmy Naraine: 100%.

Matt Bowles: Yeah.

Jimmy Naraine: The funny thing is that when you know people in certain circles, you know, you have a lot of mutual friends. So, for example, Tim and I, we have mutual friends, right? And some of Tony Robbins and I, we. We know people, we have people in common. And if it was anybody else and I wanted to meet them, if I was in town, I would just say, hey, can you connect me with so and so you tried to make it happen. I just realized I never really tried to make it happen because it’s almost like from the social dynamics point of view, when you meet a person like this, the last thing you want to do is to be like, oh, man, wow, it’s you. You don’t want to do that, right? You want to connect on a human level. Right? But there’s a part of you that looks at that person, and it’s not just a person. There’s a person is your perception of a person, which became a myth in your head. You know what I mean?

Matt Bowles: Right.

Jimmy Naraine: So, it’s interesting. But I do hope to meet them at some point. Same with Tony Robbins, right? I was 15, 16 years old. Listening to Tony Robbins made me realize so many things about controlling your own reality, controlling your thoughts, your mindset. So, yeah, man, let’s see. Maybe Tim likes to come over to Buenos Aires. Maybe. Maybe you’re going to see him somewhere here.

Matt Bowles: I feel like that dinner for you is a possibility, man. I feel like we could make this happen, you and Tim, having dinner. All right, brother, what is one travel hack that you use that you could recommend to people?

Jimmy Naraine: Whenever I go to a new place, when people ask me, hey, sir, first time here, are you here alone? I never say I’m alone, and I never say it’s my first time unless I’m in a safe environment. But if I’m in a dodgy taxi or maybe middle of the night talking to random person in front of a bar. I would never reveal it’s my first time and I’m here alone. I would often say something in the lines of, no, man, I’ve been coming here many times. Lots of friends here. I know a lot of people. Because you don’t want to make yourself into a target, right?

Matt Bowles: Good advice, man. All right. Of all the places that you have been now in the world, Jimmy, what are your top three favorite travel destinations you’d most recommend?

Jimmy Naraine: People check out, I would say, for living, in terms of long-term living. Canary Islands, specifically La Palma Island. It’s a place that combines incredible nature, great people, it’s not too expensive. Spanish language, a bit of Latin culture. Very safe. So, Canary Islands does the first place. The second place, I would say Thailand. Thailand, because of my history with Thailand, I spent a lot of time in there. People are incredible. I love Thai culture, the food, Thai boxing. I’m a big fan of Muay Thai. I’ve been doing it myself. Just lots of amazing memories in there. And the third place, you know what I’m going to say? I can’t say specific country, but I’m just going to say Latin America in general. Just Latin America. I’m sorry, I can’t give you a specific country, but just Latin America. There is something about this place. No matter where you go in Latin America, whether it’s Argentina, Colombia, Peru, Brazil, there is a very distinct vibe. You know what I’m talking about? As you’re nodding at me right now, you know what I’m talking about. There’s this feeling of wilderness, so you have civilization, but it’s also mixed with the unknown and adventure and chaos and passion and all of that mixed together. I just love. This is like my favorite cocktail, man. Latin America.

Matt Bowles: Agreed, brother, agreed. And very apropos for where we are now. All right, Jimmy, what are your top three bucket list destinations? These are places you have not yet been highest on your list you’d most love to see.

Jimmy Naraine: One of the places is definitely New Zealand. Never been there, just went to Australia. Almost went to New Zealand. I just know the nature is incredible. So that’s number one. I’m going to say Hawaii and Tahiti. I went to Hawaii once, but I didn’t spend enough time there. And I’ve been promising to myself that I’m going to go back there. It was just incredible. Life changing trip. We don’t have the time for the story now, but that was one of those trips that literally changed my life. I overcame a lot of internal demons, spending a lot of time by myself, hiking in silence and, and learning about myself. So, Hawaii, Tahiti does the second. And the third place, I’m not going to give you a specific country, but the region, I would say the southern Africa. So, Namibia, Botswana, of course, South Africa, Lesotho, Zambia, Zimbabwe, all of those places. I’d love to see them. Yeah, that would be it. You know what’s happening in my head now, right. I’m already thinking about many other places I want to list. But after wine and you propelling me to think about my travel adventures and knowing in a second, we’re going to be going out there into the district of Palermo just to meet other nomads. I mean, I’m just so excited.

Matt Bowles: Yeah, we got a party to get to, man. So, we’re going to wrap this up with one final question. And Jimmy, this happens to be the most important question of the entire interview. I’m going to ask you to name your top five hip-hop emcees of all time. But before you do that, and while you’re thinking about that, I want to just ask you, I mean, in light of everything that you shared about how you initially got into hip-hop at a very early stage in your life today, when you think about it, what does hip-hop music mean to you? What do you love about hip-hop?

Jimmy Naraine: Self-expression while staying unapologetically you. That’s something that connects a lot of hip-hop artists. They try to express themselves while being unapologetically themselves, not living up to some standards or rules imposed by the society. You want to share something, you share it. And that’s it, man. And that’s why I love it. That’s why I love it. Everything goes. And that’s how it should be.

Matt Bowles: Awesome. All right, Jimmy, who are you? Top five.

Jimmy Naraine: Top five, the first one has to be Peja. It’s the Polish rapper. And I don’t listen actively to Peja now, but the reason I’m mentioning him is because that’s how my journey started. That was the first rapper that I ever heard in my life, the Polish rapper. So, for sure, man, like pay, I used to rap along to his lyrics with my buddies back in the neighborhood. So. Okay, that’s one. Another one. Okay. Since we are in a Spanish speaking country, Nach. I like Nach a lot. El Idioma de los Dioses, for example, or Chico problemático or songs like that. The reason I’m mentioning Nach is because, well, first of all, I love his music. But also, while I was learning Spanish, I tried to also do it by rhyming in Spanish. So, I learned a bunch of songs like Chico problemático for example, or another group. That’s another thing. So, I would literally before I was going out in Spain to meet strangers, I would turn on my boombox and I would just rhyme in Spanish over multiple glasses of wine to get myself in the state.

So, I just have so many great memories with those rappers. Okay, so we have two foreign rappers now. Okay, so let’s get into the English-speaking rappers. One person that comes to mind right away is Logic. I just love Logic‘s delivery. I love his story. He’s mixed raced, experience a lot of hardships in his life. Incredible delivery, incredible lyrics. When you listen to him, it’s like spoken poetry. It really makes you think. A lot of great songs. So, Logic, for sure, Logic. Also like to rap to him. Another one would be the Snoop Doggy Dog. So, I’m a big fan of Snoop Dogg. Not just as a rapper, but as a person. It’s just incredible to see a guy growing up on the streets, right. And almost going to jail for a very long time. He had this case back in the day and then turning his life around. And while a lot of other rappers, their careers just went downhill, they got into something else. Some people got shot and Snoop Dogg just keeps going after it. He’s still relevant, super chilled. I think if we all had more of that Snoop Dogg vibe, the world would be a better place. So, Snoop Dogg would love to meet the guy. Actually, you asked me about the dinner. I would love to meet. I would love to meet Snoop Dogg. Oh, that would be such a pleasure.

Matt Bowles: Yeah.

Jimmy Naraine: So, Snoop Doggy Dog and. And then the last one. I tell you what, let me tell you about the rapper that a lot of people don’t know that I’m a big fan of. Okay. Because if I said Souls of Mischief, people know them, right? Nas people know them. Tupac, people know those guys. There’s a guy called Harry Mack. So, Harry Mack and shout out. Great fucking guy. He’s a freestyle rapper and his thing is that he’s just incredible at freestyling. His freestyle is literally the best freestyle I’ve ever seen in my entire life. Had a pleasure to talk to him on multiple occasions. And one thing about this guy is that he’s so humble. He doesn’t have to be that humble and he’s still humble. It’s just incredible. I had one of those calls with him and we talked about building courses and he was complimenting me on my courses and my presence.

And I’m like, bro, you’re talking about presence. You are rhyming on the Ellen show and you’re rhyming for Kendrick Lamar and Kendrick is losing his shit listening to you. You’re talking about presence, man. Anyhow, super humble guy with incredible talent and even more work ethic. When I found out about him almost two years ago, I already thought he was incredible. But the progress he has made over the last two years is just incredible. He took it to the next level to celebrate 1 million subscribers on YouTube. He did 10-hour Freestyle Life where people throw wars and he just goes for it. You just throw wars. Just go for it. You can’t make this up, right? You just can’t make this up. His delivery has, you know, he. People throw words like in humanity; people throw words like Martin Luther King. And he would literally create stories out of those words and names and turn them into poetry. Unbelievable. You just type in Harry Mack on YouTube and strap on your seatbelts because you’re going to need them.

Matt Bowles: Harry Mack is insanely talented. I agree. One of the most talented improvisational freestyle rappers I have ever heard. Your interview with him, you interviewed him for 60 plus minutes and there was an amazing conclusion to the interview. I’m actually going to link it up in the show notes to. To this episode.

Jimmy Naraine: Oh, that’s cool.

Matt Bowles: Because I want people to be able to hear you interviewing Harry Mack because the interview is fantastic. Right? And I was compelled by all of it because of course I know who he is. I know his work; I’ve heard his freestyles and it’s blown my mind. And you of course, went deep with him on all kinds of amazing questions, which is incredible. So, the whole interview is great, but it culminates with you beatboxing and Harry Mack spitting a freestyle over you beatbox about themes that you had previously discussed in that interview.

Jimmy Naraine: Yeah.

Matt Bowles: Blew my mind, bro. We are definitely linking that up in the show notes. So, folks can go to themaverickshow.com just go to the show notes for this episode. We’re going to link you up to Harry Mack so you can check out his stuff and his YouTube. We’re also going to link up the Jimmy Naraine interviewing Harry Mack podcast so you can hear the interview. And then here, Jimmy beatboxing and Harry Mack free styling over it. Absolutely blew my mind, bro.

Jimmy Naraine: Awesome, man. So nice to hear this.

Matt Bowles: Definitely, brother. For sure. All right, Jimmy, you and I have a big nomad party to get to in Buenos Aires right now. So, let’s conclude this. Let folks know how they can find you, how they can follow you on social media, how they can learn more about your content and check you out. How do you want people to come into your world?

Jimmy Naraine: The easiest way is just to type in Jimmy Naraine. Like anywhere you go, if you go to Instagram, you just type in Jimmy Naraine. You’re going to find me YouTube Jimmy Naraine Official. But it’s just my name. Everywhere you want to go is my name. I’ll say the best way. I’m most active on Instagram. That’s probably the best place. And obviously take the course. Just make the most of it. It’s a free course offer. It’s two hours of content. Just take it, have a look and I’m curious to actually hear from your which parts of the course you enjoyed the most. So then if you actually feel really compelled by a specific lecture in the course, then just make a post on social media and tag both of us, tag Matt and myself and just tell us what you’ve learned.

Matt Bowles: Awesome man. We are going to link all that up in the show notes. Everything we have discussed is going to be in one place. Just go to themaverickshow.com go to the show notes for this episode. There you’re going to see the link for Jimmy’s free course and the coupon code you need to get it for free. You’re also going to see all of the social media handles for how to follow and contact Jimmy. Check out more of his content and everything else that we discussed on this episode. Jimmy, this was amazing brother. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you.

Jimmy Naraine: I appreciate you. And thank you so much for everyone listening. We appreciate you. Thank you.

Matt Bowles: We do appreciate you. We now have a party to get to so we’re going to roll. Good night, everybody.